D
dion
Guest
I am going to be putting a broughton barrell chambered for .284 on my rifle. what procedure should I use to break this in. I am very new at long range shooting, so any advise to these simple questions is appreciated
A
abintx
Guest
Dion ...
The real long range guys are here: http://benchrest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12.
Break in guidelines from Speedy are found at this link: http://benchrest.netfirms.com/Barrel Break-In.htm.
The real long range guys are here: http://benchrest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12.
Break in guidelines from Speedy are found at this link: http://benchrest.netfirms.com/Barrel Break-In.htm.
Tim Oltersdorf
Active member
barrel break in
Dion, You will get answers ranging from one shot and clean for the first 100 shots to no break in at all. I am in the no break in at all school but have done the laborious break in proceedure in the past. I have found that the following break in procedure to be as good as any I have tried: Take all your clothes off and smear yourself with mud. Use anything you need to achieve an out of body experience. This may be prayer, illicit or legal drugs, self flagellation, sex with extraterrestrials or common vegetables..whatever it takes. Look down upon your new barrel from above and be at peace with the universe. Then go out and shoot the sucker. If it doesn't shoot try more mud. Tim
Dion, You will get answers ranging from one shot and clean for the first 100 shots to no break in at all. I am in the no break in at all school but have done the laborious break in proceedure in the past. I have found that the following break in procedure to be as good as any I have tried: Take all your clothes off and smear yourself with mud. Use anything you need to achieve an out of body experience. This may be prayer, illicit or legal drugs, self flagellation, sex with extraterrestrials or common vegetables..whatever it takes. Look down upon your new barrel from above and be at peace with the universe. Then go out and shoot the sucker. If it doesn't shoot try more mud. Tim
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I'm with Mr T re the self flagellation, it prepares you for later in life when you look back on all the time wasted haring off down twisty rabbit trails in search of The Grail. By that time you have to pay someone else with a healthier arm...... that old rotator cuff y'know.....
'Course me being of Finnish extraction, flagellation tugs at other viscera ......so take it for what it's worth!
LOL
al
'Course me being of Finnish extraction, flagellation tugs at other viscera ......so take it for what it's worth!
LOL
al
H
hecksf
Guest
I am going to have to go with Doctor T on this one. Although I am not a top notch shooter.
Butch Lambert
Active member
Every time you pull the trigger you are wearing out the barrel. I don't have a break in cleaning method. Let the barrel tell you. My new 30BR barrel that I shot in competition for the first time this past Saturday didn't get cleaned at all. It has over 70 rounds through it. I have never done that before, but it doesn't need it.
Butch
Butch
I was told...
....by Tony Boyer that he fires 20 rounds to fireform the brass. After that, the barrel is thoroughly cleaned. He then uses the 20 pieces of brass to test loads in the barrel. After the 40 rounds, judgement is passed as to the match worthiness of said barrel.
Two barrel makers told me that they recommended shoot 1, clean, 1 and clean until the blue patches subside (normally about 5-6 rounds)...then fire 3 and clean until about 20 rounds are fired. Both told me that the throat area needs to be polished of reamer marks. The main portion of the barrel does not need to be lapped....because it has been lapped altready, and any more shooting justwears out the barrel sooner. Good shooting...James
....by Tony Boyer that he fires 20 rounds to fireform the brass. After that, the barrel is thoroughly cleaned. He then uses the 20 pieces of brass to test loads in the barrel. After the 40 rounds, judgement is passed as to the match worthiness of said barrel.
Two barrel makers told me that they recommended shoot 1, clean, 1 and clean until the blue patches subside (normally about 5-6 rounds)...then fire 3 and clean until about 20 rounds are fired. Both told me that the throat area needs to be polished of reamer marks. The main portion of the barrel does not need to be lapped....because it has been lapped altready, and any more shooting justwears out the barrel sooner. Good shooting...James
A
abintx
Guest
Dion ...
Here's another point of view / information on Break-In and Cleaning that I received along with my Krieger barrels:
BREAK-IN & CLEANING of KRIEGER BARRELS
With any premium barrel that has been finish lapped, such as your Krieger Barrel, the lay or direction of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, so fouling is minimal. This is true of any properly finish-lapped barrel regardless of how it is rifled. If it is not finish-lapped, there will be reamer marks left in the bore that are directly across the direction of the bullet travel. This occurs even in a button-rifled barrel as the button cannot completely iron out these reamer marks.
Because the lay of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, very little is done to the bore during break-in, but the throat is another story. When your barrel is chambered, by necessity there are reamer marks left in the throat that are across the lands, i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. In a new barrel they are very distinct; much like the teeth on a very fine file. When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is released into the gas which at this temperature and pressure is actually a plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this gas and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools, the copper comes out of suspension and is deposited in the bore. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore when it is actually for the most part the new throat. If this copper is allowed to stay in the bore, and subsequent bullets and deposits are fired over it; copper which adheres well to itself, will build up quickly and may be difficult to remove later. So when we break in a barrel, our goal is to get the throat polished without allowing copper to build up in the bore. This is the reasoning for the "fire-one-shot-and-clean" procedure.
Barrels will vary slightly in how many rounds they take to break in because of things like slightly different machinability of the steel, or steel chemistry, or the condition of the chambering reamer, etc. For example a chrome moly barrel may take longer to break in than stainless steel because it is more abrasion resistant even though it is the same hardness. Also chrome moly has a little more of an affinity for copper than stainless steel so it will usually show a little more "color" if you are using a chemical cleaner. (Chrome moly and stainless steel are different materials with some things in common and others different.) Rim Fire barrels can take an extremely long time to break in, sometimes requiring several hundred rounds or more. But cleaning can be lengthened to every 25-50 rounds. The break-in procedure and the clearing procedure are really the same except for the frequency. Remember the goal is to get or keep the barrel clean while polishing out the throat.
Finally, the best way to break-in the barrel is to observe when the barrel is broken in; i.e. when the fouling is reduced. This is better than some set number of cycles of "shoot and clean" as many owners report practically no fouling after the first few shots, and more break-in would be pointless. Conversely, if more is required, a set number would not address that either. Besides, cleaning is not a completely benign procedure so it should be done carefully and no more than necessary.
CLEANING
This section on cleaning is not intended to be a detailed instruction, but rather to point out a few "do's and don'ts". Instructions furnished with bore cleaners, equipment, etc. should be followed unless they would conflict with these "do's and don'ts."
You should use a good quality straight cleaning rod with a freely rotating handle and a rod guide that fits both your receiver raceway and the rod snugly. How straight and how snug? The object is to make sure the rod cannot touch the bore. With service rifle barrels a good rod and guide set-up is especially important as all the cleaning must be done from the muzzle and even slight damage to the barrel crown is extremely detrimental to accuracy.
There are two basic types of bore cleaners … chemical and abrasive. The chemical cleaners are usually a blend of various ingredients including oils and ammonia that attack the copper. The abrasive cleaners generally contain no chemicals and are an oil, wax, or grease base with an extremely fine abrasive such as chalk, clay, or gypsum. They clean by mechanically removing the fouling. Both are good, and we feel that neither will damage the bore when used properly.
So what is the proper way to use them? First, not all chemical cleaners are compatible with each other. Some, when used together at a certain temperature, can cause severe pitting of the barrel … even stainless steel barrels. It is fine to use two different cleaners as long as you completely remove the first cleaner from the barrel before cleaning with the second. And, of course, never mix them in the same bottle.
Follow instructions on the bottle as far as soak time, etc. Always clean from the breech whenever possible, pushing the patch or swab up to the muzzle and then back without completely exiting the muzzle. If you exit the muzzle, the rod is going to touch the bore and be dragged back in across the crown followed by the patch or brush. Try to avoid dragging things in and out of the muzzle. It will eventually cause uneven wear of the crown. Accuracy will suffer and this can lead you to believe the barrel is shot out, when in fact it still may have a lot of serviceable life left. A barrel with a worn or damaged crown can be re-crowned and accuracy will usually return.
The chemical cleaners may be the best way to clean service rifle barrels that must be cleaned from the muzzle … i.e. M1 Garand, M14, etc. … because this method avoids all the scrubbing necessary with the abrasive cleaners and the danger of damaging the crown. But again, as long as the rod doesn't touch the crown, abrasive cleaners should be fine.
Abrasive cleaners work very well. They do not damage the bore, they clean all types of fouling (copper powder, lead, plastic), and they have the added advantage of polishing the throat both in "break in" and later on when the throat begins to roughen again from the rounds fired. One national champion we know polishes the throats on his rifles every several hundred rounds or so with diamond paste to extend their accuracy life.
Again, as with the chemical cleaners, a good rod and rod guide is necessary. A jag with a patch wrapped around it works well. Apply the cleaner and begin scrubbing in short, rather fast strokes of about two to four inches in length. Concentrate most of the strokes in the throat area decreasing the number as you go toward the muzzle. Make a few full-length passes while avoiding exiting the muzzle completely, but do partially exit for about six strokes. You can avoid accidentally exiting by mounting the rifle in a vise or holder of some sort and blocking the rod at the muzzle with the wall or something to keep it from completely exiting.
This sheet is intended to touch on the critical areas of break-in and cleaning and is not intended as a complete, step-by-step guide or recommendation of any product.
The following is a guide to "break-in" based on our experience. This is not a hard and fast rule, only a guide. Some barrel, chamber, bullet, primer, powder, pressure, velocity etc. combinations may require more cycles some less!
It is a good idea to just observe what the barrel is telling you with its fouling pattern. But once it is broken in, there is no need to continue breaking it in.
Initially you should perform the shoot-one-shot-and-clean cycle for five cycles. If fouling hasn't reduced, fire five more cycles and so on until fouling begins to drop off. At that point shoot three shots before cleaning and observe. If fouling is reduced, fire five shots before cleaning. It is interesting to shoot groups during the three and five shot cycles.
Stainless
5 one-shot cycles
1 three-shot cycle
1 five-shot cycle
Chrome moly
5 - 25 - one-shot cycles
2 - three-shot cycles
1 - five-shot cycle
Here's another point of view / information on Break-In and Cleaning that I received along with my Krieger barrels:
BREAK-IN & CLEANING of KRIEGER BARRELS
With any premium barrel that has been finish lapped, such as your Krieger Barrel, the lay or direction of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, so fouling is minimal. This is true of any properly finish-lapped barrel regardless of how it is rifled. If it is not finish-lapped, there will be reamer marks left in the bore that are directly across the direction of the bullet travel. This occurs even in a button-rifled barrel as the button cannot completely iron out these reamer marks.
Because the lay of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, very little is done to the bore during break-in, but the throat is another story. When your barrel is chambered, by necessity there are reamer marks left in the throat that are across the lands, i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. In a new barrel they are very distinct; much like the teeth on a very fine file. When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is released into the gas which at this temperature and pressure is actually a plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this gas and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools, the copper comes out of suspension and is deposited in the bore. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore when it is actually for the most part the new throat. If this copper is allowed to stay in the bore, and subsequent bullets and deposits are fired over it; copper which adheres well to itself, will build up quickly and may be difficult to remove later. So when we break in a barrel, our goal is to get the throat polished without allowing copper to build up in the bore. This is the reasoning for the "fire-one-shot-and-clean" procedure.
Barrels will vary slightly in how many rounds they take to break in because of things like slightly different machinability of the steel, or steel chemistry, or the condition of the chambering reamer, etc. For example a chrome moly barrel may take longer to break in than stainless steel because it is more abrasion resistant even though it is the same hardness. Also chrome moly has a little more of an affinity for copper than stainless steel so it will usually show a little more "color" if you are using a chemical cleaner. (Chrome moly and stainless steel are different materials with some things in common and others different.) Rim Fire barrels can take an extremely long time to break in, sometimes requiring several hundred rounds or more. But cleaning can be lengthened to every 25-50 rounds. The break-in procedure and the clearing procedure are really the same except for the frequency. Remember the goal is to get or keep the barrel clean while polishing out the throat.
Finally, the best way to break-in the barrel is to observe when the barrel is broken in; i.e. when the fouling is reduced. This is better than some set number of cycles of "shoot and clean" as many owners report practically no fouling after the first few shots, and more break-in would be pointless. Conversely, if more is required, a set number would not address that either. Besides, cleaning is not a completely benign procedure so it should be done carefully and no more than necessary.
CLEANING
This section on cleaning is not intended to be a detailed instruction, but rather to point out a few "do's and don'ts". Instructions furnished with bore cleaners, equipment, etc. should be followed unless they would conflict with these "do's and don'ts."
You should use a good quality straight cleaning rod with a freely rotating handle and a rod guide that fits both your receiver raceway and the rod snugly. How straight and how snug? The object is to make sure the rod cannot touch the bore. With service rifle barrels a good rod and guide set-up is especially important as all the cleaning must be done from the muzzle and even slight damage to the barrel crown is extremely detrimental to accuracy.
There are two basic types of bore cleaners … chemical and abrasive. The chemical cleaners are usually a blend of various ingredients including oils and ammonia that attack the copper. The abrasive cleaners generally contain no chemicals and are an oil, wax, or grease base with an extremely fine abrasive such as chalk, clay, or gypsum. They clean by mechanically removing the fouling. Both are good, and we feel that neither will damage the bore when used properly.
So what is the proper way to use them? First, not all chemical cleaners are compatible with each other. Some, when used together at a certain temperature, can cause severe pitting of the barrel … even stainless steel barrels. It is fine to use two different cleaners as long as you completely remove the first cleaner from the barrel before cleaning with the second. And, of course, never mix them in the same bottle.
Follow instructions on the bottle as far as soak time, etc. Always clean from the breech whenever possible, pushing the patch or swab up to the muzzle and then back without completely exiting the muzzle. If you exit the muzzle, the rod is going to touch the bore and be dragged back in across the crown followed by the patch or brush. Try to avoid dragging things in and out of the muzzle. It will eventually cause uneven wear of the crown. Accuracy will suffer and this can lead you to believe the barrel is shot out, when in fact it still may have a lot of serviceable life left. A barrel with a worn or damaged crown can be re-crowned and accuracy will usually return.
The chemical cleaners may be the best way to clean service rifle barrels that must be cleaned from the muzzle … i.e. M1 Garand, M14, etc. … because this method avoids all the scrubbing necessary with the abrasive cleaners and the danger of damaging the crown. But again, as long as the rod doesn't touch the crown, abrasive cleaners should be fine.
Abrasive cleaners work very well. They do not damage the bore, they clean all types of fouling (copper powder, lead, plastic), and they have the added advantage of polishing the throat both in "break in" and later on when the throat begins to roughen again from the rounds fired. One national champion we know polishes the throats on his rifles every several hundred rounds or so with diamond paste to extend their accuracy life.
Again, as with the chemical cleaners, a good rod and rod guide is necessary. A jag with a patch wrapped around it works well. Apply the cleaner and begin scrubbing in short, rather fast strokes of about two to four inches in length. Concentrate most of the strokes in the throat area decreasing the number as you go toward the muzzle. Make a few full-length passes while avoiding exiting the muzzle completely, but do partially exit for about six strokes. You can avoid accidentally exiting by mounting the rifle in a vise or holder of some sort and blocking the rod at the muzzle with the wall or something to keep it from completely exiting.
This sheet is intended to touch on the critical areas of break-in and cleaning and is not intended as a complete, step-by-step guide or recommendation of any product.
The following is a guide to "break-in" based on our experience. This is not a hard and fast rule, only a guide. Some barrel, chamber, bullet, primer, powder, pressure, velocity etc. combinations may require more cycles some less!
It is a good idea to just observe what the barrel is telling you with its fouling pattern. But once it is broken in, there is no need to continue breaking it in.
Initially you should perform the shoot-one-shot-and-clean cycle for five cycles. If fouling hasn't reduced, fire five more cycles and so on until fouling begins to drop off. At that point shoot three shots before cleaning and observe. If fouling is reduced, fire five shots before cleaning. It is interesting to shoot groups during the three and five shot cycles.
Stainless
5 one-shot cycles
1 three-shot cycle
1 five-shot cycle
Chrome moly
5 - 25 - one-shot cycles
2 - three-shot cycles
1 - five-shot cycle
Butch Lambert
Active member
Damn Art, that almost locked up my computer.
Butch
Butch
B
Big Al
Guest
Let the barrel do the telling "when it's ready". I have had some smooth one from the get go. I've had some that took more than a few to know. Telling you how any would be is just a little bit on the side of magic.
I know when they clean up faster than they did to start, they are ready.
I know when they clean up faster than they did to start, they are ready.
Mike Bryant
Active member
There's still some of what Gale McMillan had to say...
floating around the internet on barrel break in. It's worth a read.
Gale McMillan on barrel break in.
floating around the internet on barrel break in. It's worth a read.
Gale McMillan on barrel break in.
Must be nice to just flail away, damn the torpedoes!,
but at $450 a pop ,which I might be able to afford, like one new barrel year , I'm gonna do a slow methodical break in,and I'm gonna let the barrel eventually tell me what it likes to shoot.
If you bore scope a new barrel you will see tooling marks up into the rifleing, left by the best gunsmiths from the pilots on their reamers as well as cylindrical scratches in the leade from the rotary cut of the reamer.I don't know what a barrel is gonna do until those copper grabbing ridges are gone,which is usually about the 100 rd mark. Now TB can tell ya within 40rds and JC can walk on water.I won't dispute either.
It's your money,your barrel,and ultimately your ass on the fireing line.
You make the call.
Joel
p.s. I also feel that it is a serious mistake, to get a barrel too hot in it's early life. Don't be in a big hurry to get any break in procedure over with quickly.
but at $450 a pop ,which I might be able to afford, like one new barrel year , I'm gonna do a slow methodical break in,and I'm gonna let the barrel eventually tell me what it likes to shoot.
If you bore scope a new barrel you will see tooling marks up into the rifleing, left by the best gunsmiths from the pilots on their reamers as well as cylindrical scratches in the leade from the rotary cut of the reamer.I don't know what a barrel is gonna do until those copper grabbing ridges are gone,which is usually about the 100 rd mark. Now TB can tell ya within 40rds and JC can walk on water.I won't dispute either.
It's your money,your barrel,and ultimately your ass on the fireing line.
You make the call.
Joel
p.s. I also feel that it is a serious mistake, to get a barrel too hot in it's early life. Don't be in a big hurry to get any break in procedure over with quickly.
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A
abintx
Guest
Pete Wass
Well-known member
As I understand it
Barrels are heated to stress relieve them after thay are rifled. How in d woild is anyone ever going to heat a barrel up hotter than it was heated up to stress relieve it? I have done the break in in the past and just shot some lately. I can't see any difference in them in terms of copper fouling. I do think one has to be careful to not allow a carbon ring form. i don't clean during an entire match day but once I am home i clean the barrel to where there isn't any carbon or copper left. if the fellow is right, the theory about telling a big enough lie often enough WORKS!
When it comes to cost, we spend less on a barrel than a Stock Car owner spends on tires each race. Try to get a season out of a set of race tires. This sport ain't expensive.
Barrels are heated to stress relieve them after thay are rifled. How in d woild is anyone ever going to heat a barrel up hotter than it was heated up to stress relieve it? I have done the break in in the past and just shot some lately. I can't see any difference in them in terms of copper fouling. I do think one has to be careful to not allow a carbon ring form. i don't clean during an entire match day but once I am home i clean the barrel to where there isn't any carbon or copper left. if the fellow is right, the theory about telling a big enough lie often enough WORKS!
When it comes to cost, we spend less on a barrel than a Stock Car owner spends on tires each race. Try to get a season out of a set of race tires. This sport ain't expensive.
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Pete Wass
Well-known member
Butch Lambert
Active member
Art,
I don't shoot a Kreiger so I doubt they will be on line to upgrade my computer.
Nader, I used to use your method until I discovered it was a waste of time and my money. How many bullets, primers, and primer do you use breaking in your barrel money wise? If your barrel tells you to do it, go ahead. If it shows no fouling, keep the brush and patches out of it.
Butch
I don't shoot a Kreiger so I doubt they will be on line to upgrade my computer.
Nader, I used to use your method until I discovered it was a waste of time and my money. How many bullets, primers, and primer do you use breaking in your barrel money wise? If your barrel tells you to do it, go ahead. If it shows no fouling, keep the brush and patches out of it.
Butch