Brass Resizing Question

Hunter

Hunter

Runnin' Along
Using the same Harrell's die to resize various pieces of Lapua 6PPC brass (none of which are new, but no neck splits), some pieces chamber (without the bullet) very easily; others chamber rather stiffly -- in the same chamber. I asked someone at Harrell's and he didn't know what causes that. Your idea(s) as to what causes that will be appreciated?
 
Al Nyhus said:
What does the case head-to-datum measure on the snug brass versus the easy to chamber brass? -Al
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Here's the deal -- I often get different measurements when measuring the distance from the bottom of the case to the top of the Harrell's "collar," maybe there's some "slop" in the way I hold the case? Nevertheless, here are some measurements:

Distance from bottom to top of collar:
Easy close - 1.544
Snug close - 1.544

Diameter right above extractor cut-out:
Easy close - .445
Snug close - .445

I ran all of the brass through a "0" Harrell's die and had a snug bolt close with several pieces. I then ran the snug-to-close brass through a "2.5" Harrell's die and got better results; although I don't recall whether all of those are now easy close. Also, I don't know whether both of the pieces above went through the 2.5 die.

FBecigneul said:
You say various pieces of Lapua brass. Is that to say various lots with various numbers of firing?
Click to expand...

I don't know the answer to that -- but likely various number of firings.
 
Just my SWAG...

Hunter said:
I don't know the answer to that -- but likely various number of firings.
Click to expand...

But unless you anneal each time it may be a variation in the amount of spring-back you get from softer brass versus brass work-hardened through multiple firings.

GsT
 
FBecigneul said:
You say various pieces of Lapua brass. Is that to say various lots with various numbers of firing?
Click to expand...

I have been out of the sport for way to long and am having a – senior moment; and the fact that I probably never knew :) But, I just looked at all my old 30BR boxes and I am thinking they have to be from two different lots at least. What effect or what result will a mix and match approach have? Are people segregating brass lots even after turning and fire forming? (30BR + 6PPC) Different barrels?
All turned with their specific Nielson turner.

Thanks!

Ken
 
Try This

Try running the tight cases through a tight base dye but do not set the shoulder back from your easily chambered case dimensions. If the cases chamber easier then you have a cartridge base problem probably caused by work hardening of the base. Since annealing the neck area probably won't help and you shouldn't anneal the base of a case it may be time to toss the case. You can squeeze the base further using a magnum pistol die. I can't remember which one but I think it was a 41 magnum. The problem is that the tight chambering problem reappears quickly usually after one firing. Do not try to excessively squeeze the base down using a standard or tight base PPC die as you have to screw in the die so much that excessive headspace can be created.
 
Hunter said:
Here's the deal -- I often get different measurements when measuring the distance from the bottom of the case to the top of the Harrell's "collar," maybe there's some "slop" in the way I hold the case?
Click to expand...

First off...do you know for sure how long the chamber is? If you haven't checked it with a chamber length gauge, it's possible the necks are a bit long.

The inconsistency with the supplied 'collar' is something I also see. I have better results using a device that doesn't have a taper on it where it touches the shoulder (Hornady tool).

You can also use an empty and deprimed 38/357 case and see what it shows. -Al
 
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My experience and learned from the old bullet maker. After 10-13 loads. The shoulder needs to be bumped. The old way was install a .003" shim under die. Set up head space. After 10-13 loads start looking for a harder close of bolt. Next load/relay remove shim. Bump all brass the same. Reinstall shim(now some guys with tons of USD, just toss these brass.) At end of day/AGG check for trim.
After 20 loads or 2 Tournaments, they become "Pre load brass"/Score brass...
Works for me and some of my friends. I use 20 brass for short range BR Tournaments.
 
I'm doing the same thing for 2 different rifles, and it's been a challenge. Rifle 1 is a 2 lug BAT Model B, and the 2nd is a 3 Lug BAT. Both rifles came with Dies. Redding Body dies, and a Bushing neck die. I also have 2 Harrell's FL dies, a "0" and a #4. With this many dies and adjustments and variables, you can see how inconsistency in measurements can get out of hand in a hurry, so I made a chamber OAL Gage as well as another gage to measure the case at .200 from the base and .030 down from the edge of the shoulder/body junction.

The headspace for both was exactly the same, so I was hopeful that one of these die sets would work for both, but that was the only measurement the same. The Chamber OAL on the 2L rifle was 1.508, and the 3L was 1.531.

To spare you a bunch of numbers, the Harrell's "0" die is perfect for the 3L rifle. It bumps the shoulder .001, and sizes the case .0004 at both the .200 line and the shoulder/body junction. The bolt with firing pin assy removed will just fall on it's own on a sized case as well.

You would have to use a hammer to get the bolt to close on the same case in the 2L rifle. That one "works" with one of the Redding body dies, even though it squeezes the shoulder .0013 more, so it may not be exactly the size that works best, but for now it's all I've got. Incidentally, the headspace and .200 line dimensions are almost exactly the same with this die as the Harrell's that works in the other rifle, so if my cases start getting tight I can run them in this die and have them work.

It would appear to me that annealing cases to make them all respond to sizing the same would be the way to go. Or have 2 different dies that will work for brass fired 3x or less, and those that have been work hardened more.
 
GeneT said:
But unless you anneal each time it may be a variation in the amount of spring-back you get from softer brass versus brass work-hardened through multiple firings.
Click to expand...

But, my measurements are taken long after, I suspect, any spring back would have happened (not that I know how long that takes).

Tim Oltersdorf said:
it may be time to toss the case.
Click to expand...

Maybe so, but I'm still puzzled that the measurements shown in post # 4 above allow for such differences in closing the bolt.

Al Nyhus said:
First off...do you know for sure how long the chamber is? If you haven't checked it with a chamber length gauge, it's possible the necks are a bit long.
Click to expand...

OAL (base to neck) are pretty much the same.

===============

Guys, thank you for your responses; I'll probably just accept that this is another of the many mysteries of life, and not worry about it. :)
 
Brass sizing

Your problem could be the base is not being sized enough.
The numbers on harrels die are the larger the number the more the base gets sized.
Try a larger number die or get a custom die. Fire a peice of brass two to three times send to Whidden gun works .
He will custom fit you a die . I never have click or any problem with sizing my brass with my Whidden custom die .
Just a thought thanks
Jeff Youmans
 
Maybe .....

...it's the way your extractor is engaging certain cases that is causing the stiff feeling when you close the bolt.
 
Hunter, I probably didn't phrase my question correctly so I'll try again.

Have you verified the chamber length (with a chamber length gauge) so there's no possibility that any of the necks are stacking up against the end of the neck area of the chamber?

I'll add that I had a PPC in the past that acted like this. It turned out to be the unsized portion of the neck (below where the neck bushing reaches) that was the issue.

For what it's worth. -Al
 
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