BR Nationals compared to Sporting Clays Nationals.

L

liljoe

New member
Here is something I hope you will find interesting. It has been discussed many times about the numbers in this sport and how they are declining. One of the things brought up in every conversation is money and the cost to shoot BR. Well the sporting clays game seems to be doing OK. Here are some numbers from the Feb-March issue of Clay Shooting USA magazine.

This is as it is written exactly in the magazine,

Nationals by the numbers.


The National Sporting Clays Championship keeps getting bigger and bigger, breaking records and bringing more shooters to the National Shooting Complex to shoot more targets than ever before. This years nationals had 1,920 shooters. This years shooters who came to the nationals vied for payouts and prizes totaling $300,000. 300 assorted guns were up for grabs.

The gun giveaway idea came about during the 2014 winter NSCA Advisory Council meeting. The NSSA granted the NSCA $125,000 to enhance the shoot. I was at the NBRSA Nationals last fall at Holton and if I remember correctly there was about 150 or so shooters. That is a far cry from 1900 they had.

I was talking with a gentleman a couple weeks ago about the big trap shoot held in Sparta Illinois. This would be compared to our Super Shoot. From what I can see on their website they had 3,489 people shoot that week. Wow. And I was told this is down as they used to have nearly 5,000.

I just thought this would be some good info for people to see.


Joe Hynes
 
A lot of people that cant shoot BR switches to clays. I dont want that many people at a br match. Right now i know everybody and dont have to lock my truck up when i go to the line
 
One thing to consider is how much "stuff" each shooter takes to the matches. The shotgun shooters take little more than guns, ammo and maybe cleaning gear. A pick up truck full is non too much for a lot of us BR shooters.
 
The thing I wanted people to see is how the numbers in the other sports are growing, some by huge numbers. While the attendance at most BR matches keeps dropping. My first time to attend the Super Shoot was '05, I believe there was about 325 registered. Last year was about 235 give or take a few.


Joe Hynes
 
Shotgun shooters seem to be a lot more gregarious than rifle shooters right out of the box and BR shooters are a lot less likely to welcome interruptions when ladder testing or practicing than the rest of the rifle shooters. This tends to limit the number of new shooters welcomed into the ranks by the BR folks. Also, there are a lot of folks with more $$$$$ than talent or skill who like to throw clouds of shot at clays. These people throw away stacks of cash on fancy guns that perform no better than some that are in line with competitive BR rifles--for why?

A typical trap/skeet/clays club has a clubhouse with a kitchen (some even have a bar) a women's auxiliary and a gift shop. Lots of lawyers join trap clubs which are seen by the cognoscenti as being the domain of the PC upper class of the shooting world-- more of a golf club where shooters of little or questionable at best, talent can show off their primitive shooting tubes of European origin, engraved and embellished until you feel like you'd have to be wearing gloves to be in the same room with them, while a few shooters of real skill compete to bust the aforementioned clays with the aforementioned clouds of shot. The attraction for social climbers is evident.

By contrast, a BR shooter who wants to excel, wants to be left alone when not actually competing. Some even have their own private range complete with keep out--this means you--signs. Even when competing a lot of BR shooters spend a lot of time reloading, cleaning, watching the wind and generally making the social whirl of a BR match seem like a clogged drain compared to the champagne drenched orgies attended by the shotgun bourgeoisie. This is not to say BR shooters are antisocial--they just value the development of skill over the development of potential political and social sponsors............


---the preceding was not a daydream--it was learned through years of trap and skeet and clays and five stand shooting contrasted in a number of clubs with BR shooting--and the real world.............ok, my version of the real world after watching a Duckman marathon..but still there is a lot of truth in it
 
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I shot sporting clays competitively for 5 years. Sporting clays is a younger crown compared to BR. Also in sporting clays there are classifications. You shoot with other competitors at your level. except for maybe D class. Lots of sand bagging in D class. Anyway throughout my sporting career I won several shotguns and cash prizes. Shells, money, guns, stocks, apparel what have you. Folks that attend sporting events know they have a pretty fair shot of winning something if they are on there game. Lots of side games going on at the bigger sporting shoots as well. A sporting Match is way different than BR match. There is simply a lot more to offer the shooter, compared to BR.
I miss shooting sporting clays, but I have really grown to love the challenges of BR shooting. Bench rest is a harder game to win. Much harder in fact. Beretta, browning, kriegoff and many other gun companies sponsor the big shoots with big prizes, and because of this they draw big crowds. I think that's probably the real difference in the numbers. Lee
The last major sporting clays even I attended was the US Open back in 07. I think the attendance was 1400? Im glad to see that the sport is still growing. Lee
 
Skeet, the good thing about clay birds is you can make money. One of the guys I shot trap with we would come back from the Grand and he would have $6000-$9000 in his pocket that he had won. Other than some $100-$300 Super Shoot checks I've never won any money in BR. But I never play the added money pots. Takes the fun out of it for me trying to win money.
 
amamnn said:
Shotgun shooters seem to be a lot more gregarious than rifle shooters right out of the box and BR shooters are a lot less likely to welcome interruptions when ladder testing or practicing than the rest of the rifle shooters. This tends to limit the number of new shooters welcomed into the ranks by the BR folks. Also, there are a lot of folks with more $$$$$ than talent or skill who like to throw clouds of shot at clays. These people throw away stacks of cash on fancy guns that perform no better than some that are in line with competitive BR rifles--for why?

A typical trap/skeet/clays club has a clubhouse with a kitchen (some even have a bar) a women's auxiliary and a gift shop. Lots of lawyers join trap clubs which are seen by the cognoscenti as being the domain of the PC upper class of the shooting world-- more of a golf club where shooters of little or questionable at best, talent can show off their primitive shooting tubes of European origin, engraved and embellished until you feel like you'd have to be wearing gloves to be in the same room with them, while a few shooters of real skill compete to bust the aforementioned clays with the aforementioned clouds of shot. The attraction for social climbers is evident.

By contrast, a BR shooter who wants to excel, wants to be left alone when not actually competing. Some even have their own private range complete with keep out--this means you--signs. Even when competing a lot of BR shooters spend a lot of time reloading, cleaning, watching the wind and generally making the social whirl of a BR match seem like a clogged drain compared to the champagne drenched orgies attended by the shotgun bourgeoisie. This is not to say BR shooters are antisocial--they just value the development of skill over the development of potential political and social sponsors............


---the preceding was not a daydream--it was learned through years of trap and skeet and clays and five stand shooting contrasted in a number of clubs with BR shooting--and the real world.............ok, my version of the real world after watching a Duckman marathon..but still there is a lot of truth in it
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Well done...
 
No real incentives from the manufacturers

Benchrest has never been Big Time for this reason. All of the competitive shooting sports that thrive, do so through backing by large manufacturers. They aren't doing this for pride, they do it as an investment. We simply don't have that in BR. If we all competed with Remington, Savage, Winchester, etc. rifles, there would be a reason for those guys to participate. Could you imagine if there were a 300K payout at the Nationals??? We would need 200 bench ranges...
 
I find it funny when your attendance in what ever club, car,fishing,coin,knitting ect. suffers you don't look at yourself. I have reloaded for 40 years....never been to a BR shoot. Live in Central Illinois, never seen one promoted, never seen or heard of a range invite or have a open house. I have been to trap and sporting clay events. Never been to one with a gift shop or beauty parlor. I feel comfortable not locking my car at a Saturday skeet practice get together. I love it when some farm kid with his Rem 870 and dove loads shows up and runs'em all. Yea there's a few doctors and lawyers who shoot also...equipment better ??? but not skill. I would also say if you had a BR shoot with 2500 entries you would lock your car. When AMAMNN talks about "stuffy" people, when was the last time you didn't have someone win without a special built BR rig without a $1000 to $4000 dollar scope on it. Thousands invested...!

What have you/we/I done to encourage young people to shoot. If there are not our kids or grandkids very little. Have you promoted stock factory rifles with 3 lb triggers. The ability to go out and find a place to shoot more than 100 yds with a bench non-existent. If the action,trigger,stock,bullet and barrel manufactures don't get involved there business will suffer. Are the gunsmith schools full. Do the high schools have shop and machine shop classes like when us seniors went to school. If you want a gun built how long does it take to find competitive BR quality parts without a second mortgage and a good gunsmith to do the work.

I am as much if not more of the problem...I do not post hardly at all. There are alot of people who share there ideas openly and freely. I just find it funny we don't sometimes look in the mirror.

Thanks,
Brad
 
I think what we're all saying is we dont want 2500 people at a shoot. If it gets like that ill do something else. If Steve Lee puts a beauty shop in his new clubhouse i will go get my goatee trimmed tho.
 
bsc 4444 said:
I find it funny when your attendance in what ever club, car,fishing,coin,knitting ect. suffers you don't look at yourself. I have reloaded for 40 years....never been to a BR shoot. Live in Central Illinois, never seen one promoted, never seen or heard of a range invite or have a open house. I have been to trap and sporting clay events. Never been to one with a gift shop or beauty parlor. I feel comfortable not locking my car at a Saturday skeet practice get together. I love it when some farm kid with his Rem 870 and dove loads shows up and runs'em all. Yea there's a few doctors and lawyers who shoot also...equipment better ??? but not skill. I would also say if you had a BR shoot with 2500 entries you would lock your car. When AMAMNN talks about "stuffy" people, when was the last time you didn't have someone win without a special built BR rig without a $1000 to $4000 dollar scope on it. Thousands invested...!

What have you/we/I done to encourage young people to shoot. If there are not our kids or grandkids very little. Have you promoted stock factory rifles with 3 lb triggers. The ability to go out and find a place to shoot more than 100 yds with a bench non-existent. If the action,trigger,stock,bullet and barrel manufactures don't get involved there business will suffer. Are the gunsmith schools full. Do the high schools have shop and machine shop classes like when us seniors went to school. If you want a gun built how long does it take to find competitive BR quality parts without a second mortgage and a good gunsmith to do the work.

I am as much if not more of the problem...I do not post hardly at all. There are alot of people who share there ideas openly and freely. I just find it funny we don't sometimes look in the mirror.

Thanks,
Brad
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Your comment on never being to a BR match...neither had I until I showed up at one and started asking questions. I've been reloading since I was 18 or so, and my interests quickly shifted into the rifle accuracy side of it. I played, and tweaked this and that, until I could get the best i could out of the given rifle. It was very entertaining, but I always knew that there was this Benchrest thing, where the real accuracy was. When I was young, I couldn't afford to get in, so I waited until I could, and jumped in with both feet. I'd was warned by the "regulars" at the range that the BR guys were all rich A-holes, but I never prejudge based on others opinions. What I've found is very different. Sure, there are stuffy types in every group, and BR is no exception. However, it's the exception, not the rule. I've met doctors, lawyers, and entrepreneurs, as well as coal miners, mechanics, and loggers. Heck, many of the people in the game are machinists by trade, and have gravitated to BR as an extension of their trade. The majority of these folks are good, down to earth people that are just out to have a good time.

BR is a much more specialized game than most others. To be competitive, you're equipment has to be capable of extreme accuracy, not shotgun pattern accuracy. Make no mistake, a big part of short range Benchrest is an equipment race, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just part of the game.
 
Hal I agree 100%. This thread started about the attendance at the sporting clays event and the great turn out. It was also brought up about the shrinking numbers at a BR shoot. My only point was if your attendance is down look at yourself to see what you can do to fix it. Don't run the other venue down. I think most shooters are passionate about gun freedom and rights and there sport. As we progress in life it's nice to have a " few cool toys". We have worked hard for them. If gold inlaid high dollar shotguns are your thing have at it. I drive a Redi-Mix concrete truck....put on my pants in the AM just like everyone else. I am nobody special. But I won't run you or anyone else personally or there sport to make me feel better.

Brad
 
Dusty Stevens said:
I think what we're all saying is we dont want 2500 people at a shoot. If it gets like that ill do something else. If Steve Lee puts a beauty shop in his new clubhouse i will go get my goatee trimmed tho.
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Steve Lee is putting in a beauty solon? With this crowd he will have a bunch of customers!!


Brad, its been a long Winter and us benchrest shooters don't do well with cabin fever!

.
 
Jerry- he showed the first 100 applicants pictures of us and none would accept his offer of $100k/yr + full benefits. The gift shop will have an atrium with a 100' tall waterfall, full 3 meal buffet and a 250 room motel. There will be a zip line and a dinner train thru his safari park. Im pretty excited about it since i may be qualified to drive the train. Johnnie webb will do the play by play commentary on the sportsmans channel and the tour guide on the train. I heard Bart may run the golf pro shop/ driving range too.
 
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