BR action
- Thread starter Liseo
- Start date
4
4Mesh
Guest
Let me get this straight...
You want a Remington clone but you're not happy with the tolerances of a Stiller or Borden?
No further comment.
You want a Remington clone but you're not happy with the tolerances of a Stiller or Borden?
No further comment.
J
Jay Idaho
Guest
I'm pretty sure that BAT is making one. Give them a call to verify or check out their website. Google bat machine to find them.
Glen Harrison, the original force behind Nesika, is making 700 clones. His new company is called Phoenix and is in Columbia Falls, MT. Friends are building rifles on the actions, now, and like them.
Glen Harrison, the original force behind Nesika, is making 700 clones. His new company is called Phoenix and is in Columbia Falls, MT. Friends are building rifles on the actions, now, and like them.
J
Jay Idaho
Guest
He asked for BR actions with the same FOOTPRINT as the Remington. He did not ask for a Remington CLONE.
Custom BR actions DO have less clearance between the bolt and the hole through the receiver than the Predator, not sure about the Alpine. I do believe that all of the above hold rather tight tolerances. People confuse the terms "tolerances" and "clearance".
Opinions vary,
4
4Mesh
Guest
Yes Jay, I understand, however...
You also are stating here clearance, yet refering to it as if it indicates tolerance. I'm not sure how anyone else does this but I don't know how to measure a tolerance. I can measure a clearance with no trouble. Comparing tolerances is even tougher. That means you have the prints for both. Just because we know a tolerance does not mean we know if the part fits it or not. We only know what it's "supposed" to be. You can see where this could be headed.
Without making a semantics contest out of this, I think you are aware of why someone would question that post. It's like saying, I have no trouble with a stock made by beavers who chew the barrel channel and bedding block out, but I'm not satisfied with the machining practices used making a nice action.
To each his own.
You also are stating here clearance, yet refering to it as if it indicates tolerance. I'm not sure how anyone else does this but I don't know how to measure a tolerance. I can measure a clearance with no trouble. Comparing tolerances is even tougher. That means you have the prints for both. Just because we know a tolerance does not mean we know if the part fits it or not. We only know what it's "supposed" to be. You can see where this could be headed.
Without making a semantics contest out of this, I think you are aware of why someone would question that post. It's like saying, I have no trouble with a stock made by beavers who chew the barrel channel and bedding block out, but I'm not satisfied with the machining practices used making a nice action.
To each his own.
Guys, excuse if I was unable to explain my project, english isn´t my mother tongue.
I didn´t say that the Borden Alpine or Stiller Predator are slooppy , but in theirs site they explain that these actions don´t have the close tolerance as the true BR actions.
My BAT rifle assembled by Mike Bryant is fantastic, but the diameter is 1,5"
and i really want something with same close tolerances, but with HS stock.
Maybe one BR action fitted to one HS stock is a not so well expended
money, but is what I want. Simple.
I don´t know if the BAT SV action ( or any other) will fit the HS stock, so I
decide to request help.
Again , I never think (or say)that the Alpine or Predator are sloppy.
Jay, thank for your help
to others...
Liseo
Brasil
I didn´t say that the Borden Alpine or Stiller Predator are slooppy , but in theirs site they explain that these actions don´t have the close tolerance as the true BR actions.
My BAT rifle assembled by Mike Bryant is fantastic, but the diameter is 1,5"
and i really want something with same close tolerances, but with HS stock.
Maybe one BR action fitted to one HS stock is a not so well expended
money, but is what I want. Simple.
I don´t know if the BAT SV action ( or any other) will fit the HS stock, so I
decide to request help.
Again , I never think (or say)that the Alpine or Predator are sloppy.
Jay, thank for your help
to others...
Liseo
Brasil
A
AVanGorder
Guest
Liseo,
Give Jim a call on 570-965-2505. He will give you exact numbers/specs. He is easy to speak with.
Adrian
J
Jay Idaho
Guest
I discussed bolt to receiver clearance with a custom action maker that I know and have visited with a number of times. He holds his tolerances quite closely, machining after h.t. The clearance between the bolt and raceway was held to between .0007 and .0012 at the time. He has since opened this clearance by an additinal .0005 clearance but continues to hold the tight tolerance. He does this by using advanced manufacturing processes to finish the raceway and of course, the bolt diameter.
These clearances are much smaller than other non-BR actions and tolerances are tight because they must be when you are dealing with such small clearances. This was not Stiller or Borden.
Liseo asked a simple question about available products, he was not seeking opinions.
These clearances are much smaller than other non-BR actions and tolerances are tight because they must be when you are dealing with such small clearances. This was not Stiller or Borden.
Liseo asked a simple question about available products, he was not seeking opinions.
Jim Borden
New member
Although the Alpine action has more bolt to action bore clearance than a Rimrock --it is the same or less than a BAT.
It will fit the rem 700 action inletting and I certainly woudl not call it a Remington Clone--the only thing Remington about it is that it will fit into a stock inletted for a Remington.
Jim Borden
It will fit the rem 700 action inletting and I certainly woudl not call it a Remington Clone--the only thing Remington about it is that it will fit into a stock inletted for a Remington.
Jim Borden
By itself, small bolt/receiver clearance does not make for a particularly good action.
A true story: Dave Tooley was one of the people who originally pushed the BAT action, esp. for 1,000 yard Benchrest. He has a single-digit serial number 10-inch BAT, as do I. Bruce Thom came to the 3rd 1,0000 yard Nationals even though it is not his sport, shot with us, and got our opinions on the action.
We felt that the bolt to receiver clearance was not enough. With .001 clearance, and that long bolt throw, bolts were binding a bit as we pulled them back. That is frustrating, and frustration is not something you want when competing.
So on the 10-inch BAT, Bruce opened up the clearance a bit on future actions.
The point is that "minimal clearance " is itself a compromise. There are ways of addressing the several problems, elegant ones such as the "Borden Bumps", and, I suppose more prosaic ones, such as the length of the bolt throw and/or the bolt handle, and how you open the bolt, etc.
But as we have just seen on the CF board with various steels and their properties, you can't look at the specifications of something and ignore its intended use. Be careful what you wish for, you might not understand the compromises.
FWIW
A true story: Dave Tooley was one of the people who originally pushed the BAT action, esp. for 1,000 yard Benchrest. He has a single-digit serial number 10-inch BAT, as do I. Bruce Thom came to the 3rd 1,0000 yard Nationals even though it is not his sport, shot with us, and got our opinions on the action.
We felt that the bolt to receiver clearance was not enough. With .001 clearance, and that long bolt throw, bolts were binding a bit as we pulled them back. That is frustrating, and frustration is not something you want when competing.
So on the 10-inch BAT, Bruce opened up the clearance a bit on future actions.
The point is that "minimal clearance " is itself a compromise. There are ways of addressing the several problems, elegant ones such as the "Borden Bumps", and, I suppose more prosaic ones, such as the length of the bolt throw and/or the bolt handle, and how you open the bolt, etc.
But as we have just seen on the CF board with various steels and their properties, you can't look at the specifications of something and ignore its intended use. Be careful what you wish for, you might not understand the compromises.
FWIW
B
Bolt Actions
Guest
Currently we are making stainless and chrome moly receivers in three lengths that use Remington style bolts. The bore is honed to .7025 with EDM lugways. Pacific Tool and Gauge will custom grind bolts to your spec so you can have whatever clearance you want.
Glen Harrison
Phoenix Machine
Glen Harrison
Phoenix Machine
Boyd Allen
Active member
Liseo,
Just out of curiosity, what caliber is the rifle to be?
Just out of curiosity, what caliber is the rifle to be?
Liseo, if what you want is an adjustable stock, you may try the Robertson GBF... It is not on his website, but you can take a look on this link: http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/6mmbr/vpost?id=2740996
I will get a feeling on this stock on the next 2 weeks
The main problem with the HS stocks (not the BR stock) is that the exterior finish will "grip" the sandbags.
As for the caliber, have you ever considered the 30BR? More accurate than the .308win, with less recoil. If you use light bullets (around 115-135) it will give you thousands of shots on barrel life.
But if you dont have access to light bullets, you can have a 1-12 twist barrel and use with 155-168gr bullets. It is what I am doing...
I will get a feeling on this stock on the next 2 weeks
The main problem with the HS stocks (not the BR stock) is that the exterior finish will "grip" the sandbags.
As for the caliber, have you ever considered the 30BR? More accurate than the .308win, with less recoil. If you use light bullets (around 115-135) it will give you thousands of shots on barrel life.
But if you dont have access to light bullets, you can have a 1-12 twist barrel and use with 155-168gr bullets. It is what I am doing...