Blue printing rifle action

Skeetlee,

I did not mean to put words in your mouth. I simply wanted to list the potential operations in a complete action job, and convey the thought that if one is seeking a high level of accuracy from a factory action they may be beneficial.

Personally, I don't like half measures, and any action job that did not address all of the areas that I listed would seem to be just that. On the other hand, there is a whole world of gunsmithing that serves customers that don't want to pay for a complete job, and given the intended use of the rifles, I understand why it may not be required.
 
In my limited experience and lowly opinion...the barrel and bedding are the heart of accuracy...I have had many factory actions (mostly Remingtons) that have been trued inside and out that would shoot no better than the barrel/brass/bullets would produce...and have owned some Remingtons that had match grade barrels installed with factory recoil lug and only the action face trued on a sloppy fit mandrel...and they shot great in registered competitions...even beat some custom action rifles...
I am not a national level shooter...but I think only a top level shooter could tell the difference between a unmodified factory action and a custom action if both had a top notch barrel and stock properly installed...

Just my 2 paragraphs of thoughts..:D
 
Just built a hunting rifle for my Grandson on a Rem. 600 receiver. I believe that I posted earlier that I had at least $850 in the project. That is in the receiver only including $300 for the receiver. Nothing was left to chance. My next will be on a custom receiver.
Butch
 
Like i said above. I am seriously thinking about just selling my rem 700 actions and buying the stiller predator. I dont remember for sure what i paid but i am thinking it was around 800 with a 20moa rail. Hard to beat at that price. I sure do like them!! Lee
 
Boyd Allen said:
Use a tight fitting mandrel to set the action up in jig or bell chuck, face it off, single point the threads, recut the seats, set up the bolt on the center of the firing pin hole,true the lugs, bolt face, and nose,bush the firing pin tip, , sleeve bolt to tighten fit in receiver if needed, check the bolt handle for position after lapping for finish only, r & r bolt handle if any problems are found with its position, and your scope base mounting holes will still be out of line. No one does all of that for $90.This is why Stiller sells so many Predators. Plus you can get one without a hole in the bottom.
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You lost me in this one! As a kinda newbie here, what good does it do to true up the bolt lugs when the firing pin hole is not concentric with the bolt body OD???
 
I sure hope i didnt come off wrong here fellas. I was contacted by a member here who i have respect for. He told me to be carefull in what i said over here and that i am in over my head. He may be right. what i posted above is simple what i was told by another fella that shoots as much as anyone could. I dont have the experience to really know the difference myself, and i hope i made that clear. I mean no disrespect, and i sure dont want to spread nonsense around as there is always plenty of that. I am a seasoned shot gunner looking for a new sport, and i am really enjoying this rifle stuff. Tons to learn, and i enjoy that!! I am doing better though. I attended my third ever rifle shoot today and finished second. I got beat by x count. The shoot was small, but i had a blast. I am learning every time i shoot. There is definitely progress being made in my technique, but i am a long way from being a top shooter. I am just a fella with a passion for rifles. Like i said i didnt mean to upset or offer ill advise!! Lee
 
skeet-You sure are quick to concede your equipment for newer and better. Ever hear the slogan "Buy the best, cry once"?
 
Patients I could sure use some of that!! LOL!! I am sure i am like the rest of us. When i got started into rifle shooting it was just to case coyotes, and a rem 700 varmint was all i needed. As time progressed I learned about what all could be done with a rem 700 action. I was fine with that for quite some time. I broke down and bought my first custom action a while back and it was all down hill from there. I feel its a learning thing. as i progressed in my shooting ability and reloading ability my requirements of equipment also changed or improved. I dont think thats strange or unusual at all. I read stories over on 6mmbr were guys started out with rem 700 and had some success and are now shooting nothing but the best money will buy. So cry, no i didnt cry. Heck i am having fun!! I just wanted to stress the point that i wasnt trying to act all knowledgeable and pompous here, as i still have a ton to learn. Thanks Lee
 
skeet-actually I was referring to Bat Machine Co."s (custom action maker)
slogan. It has to do with saving $$$ in the long-run if you get the best equipment up-front. If you think the Predator action is nice, try one of Stiller's full-blown BR actions, or any of the fine custom BR actions.
 
Jkob said:
You lost me in this one! As a kinda newbie here, what good does it do to true up the bolt lugs when the firing pin hole is not concentric with the bolt body OD???
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You are correct, most BR gunsmiths would setup the bolt axially to the bolt o.d. body surface and true everything else to this reference, including the firing pin hole if it were not concentric...........Don
 
I believe the idea is to use the firing pin hole as the indicated "center", then when the bolt is sleeved, the bearing surface of the bolt will be the sleeves and the bolt body will/may be eccentric. The lugs are trued to the same "center", which make the whole world centered to the firing pin hole.

This is my understanding of it, don't shoot the messenger.
 
LHSmith said:
. . . actually I was referring to Bat Machine Co.'s (custom action maker)
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In the interest of precision, that should be BAT Machine, not Bat Machine -- BAT is a play on the owner's initials -- he doesn't use periods (as with initials) in the company name, but his name is Bruce A. Thom.
 
Wayne Shaw said:
I believe the idea is to use the firing pin hole as the indicated "center", then when the bolt is sleeved, the bearing surface of the bolt will be the sleeves and the bolt body will/may be eccentric. The lugs are trued to the same "center", which make the whole world centered to the firing pin hole.

This is my understanding of it, don't shoot the messenger.
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Think about it this way for a moment, many mass produced actions do not have the firing pin hole in the center of the bolt. This means that the firing pin will not strike the primer in its center. The first step should be to bush and redrill the firing pin hole in the chamber (bolt-hopefully) center, then continue from there, which then can be the center of the boltway.
 
I have read at least one good article where the smith made a piece that fit in the firing pin hole, and had a place for the tail stock center in the other side, to allow centering on the pin hole without damaging it. As was mentioned above, this would be for sleeving the bolt. As to off center primer strikes, I am at a disadvantage in not having measured any Remington bolts (the main brand under discussion when it comes to extensive action jobs) for pin hole concentricity, but it is my impression (maybe wrong) that the primary culprit is action threads that are eccentric to the CL of the bolt bore, combined with generous bolt clearance. Perhaps someone can furnish some numbers based on his experience.
 
Boyd, you may have to do both. On some really screwed up actions the firing pin hole is out of center AND the threads are crooked. Truing an action must start at the center of the boltway. That is the only surface that can not be changed in most actions since it is normally a split hole. Some custom actions this is not the case though.
 
Boyd Allen said:
I have read at least one good article where the smith made a piece that fit in the firing pin hole, and had a place for the tail stock center in the other side, to allow centering on the pin hole without damaging it. As was mentioned above, this would be for sleeving the bolt. As to off center primer strikes, I am at a disadvantage in not having measured any Remington bolts (the main brand under discussion when it comes to extensive action jobs) for pin hole concentricity, but it is my impression (maybe wrong) that the primary culprit is action threads that are eccentric to the CL of the bolt bore, combined with generous bolt clearance. Perhaps someone can furnish some numbers based on his experience.
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Hi Boyd,

The (2) major reasons for using the bolt body o.d. as the axial/radial reference datum over the firing pin hole are;

1. it is the datum used by the manufactures in order to develope all the other features of the bolt.

2. if using the firing pin hole and it were off by any substantial amount, say .010" or more, than the entire bolt body would have to be re-machined front to back if sleeves were installed to bring the firing pin hole on-center with the action body to make it fit in the action raceway, assuming .010" or less bolt body to action raceway clearance in the un-machined configuration. and you would end up with an eccentric unbalanced bolt assembly that required alot of metal removal, not only for the bolt body but perhaps all the other features; lugs, bolt nose features, shroud features, etc.

Much less metal removal most likely when using the bolt body datum........Don
 
how does the firing pin hole being off center effect accuracy? is it from the firring pin impact being off center or is it from unsymmetrical burn of the primer compound? if it is from the impact being off center what factor does the constant off center pressure of the ejector play in accuracy?
 
hmm i don't think i was on page 3 when i made my post, don's post brought some clarification to my question. but still why sleeve the firing pin hole if you made the rest of the features of the bolt symmetrical to the od of the bolt
 
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