Bill Calfee
- Thread starter Bart
- Start date
Bryce
Most of the serious shooters in benchrest travel across the united states in huge motorhomes getting 4mpg at $4 a gallon.
They own a pile of actions and buy barrels 20 at a time.
One of them is having Hodgdon make him 10,000 pounds of powder and he just put up $200,000 so March scopes would be available to the masses.
I don't think a rimfire rifle costing 1/20th the price of the mercedes benz that his dogs stay in to stay cool at a match would be a major purchase.
The best pilots,the best yachtsman and the best of anything all have one thing in common$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Lynn
Most of the serious shooters in benchrest travel across the united states in huge motorhomes getting 4mpg at $4 a gallon.
They own a pile of actions and buy barrels 20 at a time.
One of them is having Hodgdon make him 10,000 pounds of powder and he just put up $200,000 so March scopes would be available to the masses.
I don't think a rimfire rifle costing 1/20th the price of the mercedes benz that his dogs stay in to stay cool at a match would be a major purchase.
The best pilots,the best yachtsman and the best of anything all have one thing in common$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Lynn
B
Bryce
Guest
Of course that is true Lynn. Even down this back corner of the world we have had guys turn up to a trap shoot in private helicoptors !
The difference here is that by auctioning off a Spec built rifle with some sort of accuracy guarantee and the promise of shooting it before payment puts that rifle out of reach of even somebody who could afford to buy a nice custom built rifle and take his chances on how it shoots.
If having a rifle built in the normal manner you pays your money and you takes your chances, anybody could get a really exceptional rifle. By auctioning them off with accuracy promises only those with the money will ever have a chance to own such a rifle. If all top name benchrest smiths did this then it would put those with the money at an even bigger advantage than they are at now in what is an equipment heavy game.
Of course Bill can do what he pleases, personally I'd just rather see him do this whole auction thing on his own site rather than cash in on the free publicity he has created for himself here and then off Wilbur a measely $50 for the privilege of it !
Bryce
The difference here is that by auctioning off a Spec built rifle with some sort of accuracy guarantee and the promise of shooting it before payment puts that rifle out of reach of even somebody who could afford to buy a nice custom built rifle and take his chances on how it shoots.
If having a rifle built in the normal manner you pays your money and you takes your chances, anybody could get a really exceptional rifle. By auctioning them off with accuracy promises only those with the money will ever have a chance to own such a rifle. If all top name benchrest smiths did this then it would put those with the money at an even bigger advantage than they are at now in what is an equipment heavy game.
Of course Bill can do what he pleases, personally I'd just rather see him do this whole auction thing on his own site rather than cash in on the free publicity he has created for himself here and then off Wilbur a measely $50 for the privilege of it !
Bryce
Jettmug
Steve the rifle in question was put together by a gunsmith you don't like.It has a stopped muzzle that you don't think exists.It was set at the parallel node and is not adjustable.
You might want to go to Wal-Mart as they have rifle on sale that are better built to your liking and means.
Lynn
Steve the rifle in question was put together by a gunsmith you don't like.It has a stopped muzzle that you don't think exists.It was set at the parallel node and is not adjustable.
You might want to go to Wal-Mart as they have rifle on sale that are better built to your liking and means.
Lynn
Bryce
I don't know how they sell rimfire rifles in New Zealand but over here it is not unheard of to sell them by there capability.I own several but don't compete with them.Many of the higher priced rimfires are sold with accuracy claims by the manufacturer.In this case Bill Calfee is the manufacturer.
I know you are looking at ways to offend Mr Calfee but I don't think showing him a lack of knowledge is helping your cause.I could be wrong?
Lynn
I don't know how they sell rimfire rifles in New Zealand but over here it is not unheard of to sell them by there capability.I own several but don't compete with them.Many of the higher priced rimfires are sold with accuracy claims by the manufacturer.In this case Bill Calfee is the manufacturer.
I know you are looking at ways to offend Mr Calfee but I don't think showing him a lack of knowledge is helping your cause.I could be wrong?
Lynn
Joe Friedrich
Member
That rifle will not go the highest bitter period. Bill will choose who it goes to. It's his rifle and he can do what he well pleases and don't care who it goes to. The shooter still has to do his part and if he doesn't, I don't care how bloody accurate the thing is. You can't buy success.
Take Care,
Joe
Take Care,
Joe
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Bryce
Guest
Lynn,
You choose to read what you want to hear.
I never said that some rifles in some circumstances weren't sold with a value based on how well they have shot in the past. Sure if somebody has something that shoots great and can demonstrate that then the rifle will have a higher value than a rifle that is a so so shooter.
The difference is, and the bit that you choose to ignore, is that Bill does something that all the other smiths do not. He builds a brand new rifle not to order but with the view to selling it once he has displayed how well it shoots. That is great and to be honest rather business savvy of Bill. The point that I and others object to is that he comes onto this public forum and makes himself seen, then advertises the rifle here where it will get seen by a decent sized audience of benchrest shooters.
I can see why he does it but I don't think it is a very ethical way of doing it, even if he does hand Wilbur a few peso's for the pleasure.
Does he have other paying clients with rifles on order while he builds these specs, I know he said he did previously, maybe he has dumped the orders, who knows.
It is just the principle to my mind, make a song and dance here jabbering on about stopped muzzles and future of accuracy etc etc, keep his name in lights now that he doesn't write anymore and then go and use this place like an auction house. He offers Wilbur money after he has already made his post singing up the virtues of Spec 5.
I fully understand why he wants to auction off a rifle but it seems like he is manipulating the system here to his own ends. Remember Lynn, he has his own web site, why not pay somebody to set it up properly and run his business from there rather than from Wilburs site ? I guess it is easier and cheaper to talk it up first and then offer Wilbur $50 than it is to pay somebody to make a viable business out of his own site.
Bryce
You choose to read what you want to hear.
I never said that some rifles in some circumstances weren't sold with a value based on how well they have shot in the past. Sure if somebody has something that shoots great and can demonstrate that then the rifle will have a higher value than a rifle that is a so so shooter.
The difference is, and the bit that you choose to ignore, is that Bill does something that all the other smiths do not. He builds a brand new rifle not to order but with the view to selling it once he has displayed how well it shoots. That is great and to be honest rather business savvy of Bill. The point that I and others object to is that he comes onto this public forum and makes himself seen, then advertises the rifle here where it will get seen by a decent sized audience of benchrest shooters.
I can see why he does it but I don't think it is a very ethical way of doing it, even if he does hand Wilbur a few peso's for the pleasure.
Does he have other paying clients with rifles on order while he builds these specs, I know he said he did previously, maybe he has dumped the orders, who knows.
It is just the principle to my mind, make a song and dance here jabbering on about stopped muzzles and future of accuracy etc etc, keep his name in lights now that he doesn't write anymore and then go and use this place like an auction house. He offers Wilbur money after he has already made his post singing up the virtues of Spec 5.
I fully understand why he wants to auction off a rifle but it seems like he is manipulating the system here to his own ends. Remember Lynn, he has his own web site, why not pay somebody to set it up properly and run his business from there rather than from Wilburs site ? I guess it is easier and cheaper to talk it up first and then offer Wilbur $50 than it is to pay somebody to make a viable business out of his own site.
Bryce
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Could you please post a link to the classified ad that lists this Spec 5 rifle for sale? Bill said he was listing it, and even paid Wilbur 25 times the normal classified fees, yet still there is no rifle listed for sale.
As far as my liking and means - I do have my eyes on one of those "Cricket" rifles for my son, and unless you work for the IRS and have a copy of my tax return, I'm not sure how you would know what my "means" are.
Bryce and Jettmug
I don't know if you've ever heard of Cooper or Weatherby rifles? In the united states alot of shooters have heard of them.
They both sell rifles based on how well they will shoot.If you pay $$$$ more you get a better shooting rifle and it is part of there advertising.
There is a company in england that makes ammo and a company in germany that make 22's.They list accuracy levels on there barrels before they are allowed to be sold.You and I can't buy the best ones as they are sold to the olympic teams.The same with the ammo.
Its Bill's gun built by Bill and tuned by Bill.He can do whatever he likes with his gun.
If I send him a action barrel and stock I expect he will build a gun to the best of his ability with the parts I've sent him.
I wouldn't expect him to fit 15 barrels to it and give me the best one.I would expect him to do the best with what he received from myself.
Steve I do work for the government but you don't have a need to know.
Lynn
I don't know if you've ever heard of Cooper or Weatherby rifles? In the united states alot of shooters have heard of them.
They both sell rifles based on how well they will shoot.If you pay $$$$ more you get a better shooting rifle and it is part of there advertising.
There is a company in england that makes ammo and a company in germany that make 22's.They list accuracy levels on there barrels before they are allowed to be sold.You and I can't buy the best ones as they are sold to the olympic teams.The same with the ammo.
Its Bill's gun built by Bill and tuned by Bill.He can do whatever he likes with his gun.
If I send him a action barrel and stock I expect he will build a gun to the best of his ability with the parts I've sent him.
I wouldn't expect him to fit 15 barrels to it and give me the best one.I would expect him to do the best with what he received from myself.
Steve I do work for the government but you don't have a need to know.
Lynn
B
Bryce
Guest
Lynn,
I have had two coopers, they have an accuracy guarantee but they don't sell you a better one if you pay more money !! Same applies to Weatherby, they guarantee MOA but you can't pay twice as much and buy a half MOA rifle !!!
Eley and Anschutz are a little different than Bill. They sponsor and/or supply Olympic shooters so of course they are going to make sure there guys are going to get the best batches of ammo and they get a better than average shooting rifle. They don't make a really great rifle and a really great batch of ammo and then auction them to Olympic shooters with promises of it being the best ever built anywhere by anybody !! Big difference Lynn.
Like I said, I understand why Bill wants to sell it by auction, what you didn't comment on and what is the crux of my posts is the fact that Bill uses this place like his very own to do what he likes and offers Wilbur a mere $50 for doing it.
If you are going to comment back make it about this point right here : BILL HAS HIS OWN WEBSITE !! WHY DOESN"T HE PUT SOME MONEY INTO MAKING IT A BETTER SITE AND RUN HIS BUSINESS FROM THERE INSTEAD OF RUNNING IT THROUGH BRC !! ??
Sorry for the finger last week, I think it means something a little stronger over there than it does here !! Apologies.
Thanks
Bryce
I have had two coopers, they have an accuracy guarantee but they don't sell you a better one if you pay more money !! Same applies to Weatherby, they guarantee MOA but you can't pay twice as much and buy a half MOA rifle !!!
Eley and Anschutz are a little different than Bill. They sponsor and/or supply Olympic shooters so of course they are going to make sure there guys are going to get the best batches of ammo and they get a better than average shooting rifle. They don't make a really great rifle and a really great batch of ammo and then auction them to Olympic shooters with promises of it being the best ever built anywhere by anybody !! Big difference Lynn.
Like I said, I understand why Bill wants to sell it by auction, what you didn't comment on and what is the crux of my posts is the fact that Bill uses this place like his very own to do what he likes and offers Wilbur a mere $50 for doing it.
If you are going to comment back make it about this point right here : BILL HAS HIS OWN WEBSITE !! WHY DOESN"T HE PUT SOME MONEY INTO MAKING IT A BETTER SITE AND RUN HIS BUSINESS FROM THERE INSTEAD OF RUNNING IT THROUGH BRC !! ??
Sorry for the finger last week, I think it means something a little stronger over there than it does here !! Apologies.
Thanks
Bryce
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Bryce
I don't know if you shoot rimfire or not but this is one of the largest rimfire accuracy boards on the internet.
Wilbur Harris who owns this operation is a rimfire competitor of very high esteem.I am only guessing here but I think Wilbur and Bill might go back along ways and like many many posters Bill can sell stuff in the classifieds.Its how Wilbur helps to pay the gas bill.
As to why Bill uses this website as opposed to his own thats a no brainer.This is where the action is plain and simple.
You don't sell many Bikinis in Antartica even though its surrounded by water.
As to his business practices the only thing I know of them is he sent Wilbur 10 times more money for the ad than Wilbur charges.I doubt he majored in business.
Lynn
I don't know if you shoot rimfire or not but this is one of the largest rimfire accuracy boards on the internet.
Wilbur Harris who owns this operation is a rimfire competitor of very high esteem.I am only guessing here but I think Wilbur and Bill might go back along ways and like many many posters Bill can sell stuff in the classifieds.Its how Wilbur helps to pay the gas bill.
As to why Bill uses this website as opposed to his own thats a no brainer.This is where the action is plain and simple.
You don't sell many Bikinis in Antartica even though its surrounded by water.
As to his business practices the only thing I know of them is he sent Wilbur 10 times more money for the ad than Wilbur charges.I doubt he majored in business.
Lynn
BC said it.
Straight facts - BC said that he was listing the most accurate rimfire in the world within the classified ads of this site. It has not yet been listed. I'm just waiting to see how much he wants for it.
He's a businessman, and has a right to sell in whatever way he chooses. I'm sure it would be tough to make a living selling rimfire rifles 1 at a time. Perhaps an auction format would fetch the best price, but then BC doesn't get to choose who he sells to.
I suspect that he was fibbing when he said that this rifle would be listed in the classifieds, and that instead, it will be sold without ever being listed.
If it has listed it, as he said he would, please direct me to the classified ad.
You don't have to be nasty, Lynn, and it doesn't really matter where you work, but petty attacks about whether or not anyone on this site can afford to support the hobby of their choice seem childish.
SteveM
Straight facts - BC said that he was listing the most accurate rimfire in the world within the classified ads of this site. It has not yet been listed. I'm just waiting to see how much he wants for it.
He's a businessman, and has a right to sell in whatever way he chooses. I'm sure it would be tough to make a living selling rimfire rifles 1 at a time. Perhaps an auction format would fetch the best price, but then BC doesn't get to choose who he sells to.
I suspect that he was fibbing when he said that this rifle would be listed in the classifieds, and that instead, it will be sold without ever being listed.
If it has listed it, as he said he would, please direct me to the classified ad.
You don't have to be nasty, Lynn, and it doesn't really matter where you work, but petty attacks about whether or not anyone on this site can afford to support the hobby of their choice seem childish.
SteveM
B
Bryce
Guest
I follow that Lynn,
I think we are talking at cross purposes here a little, my point is more to do with the bigger picture that then leads up to this whole talk of an auction for the most accurate rimfire in the world.
Can we agree to disagree, it is obvious we have very different opinions about the nature and purpose behind Bills posts etc. You have talked to him direct so maybe I am all wrong, I can accept that.
Bryce
I think we are talking at cross purposes here a little, my point is more to do with the bigger picture that then leads up to this whole talk of an auction for the most accurate rimfire in the world.
Can we agree to disagree, it is obvious we have very different opinions about the nature and purpose behind Bills posts etc. You have talked to him direct so maybe I am all wrong, I can accept that.
Bryce
Jettmug And Bryce
Steve
I think Bill Calfee has cloaked his ad so you can't see it.His used guns sell for $6000 and Bill doesn't get anywhere near that for a new gun.
It is nice to see that you actually know what nasty and petty means.I will remind you on the next Bill Calfee post as I know you'll be there.
Bryce
You never saw anything about an auction from Bill Calfee.
I know you Calfee haters are furious but lets not make stuff up.On the rimfire forum before Wilbur deleted the post I(Lynn) suggested Bill sells 250 tickets at $100 a piece for the rifle not Bill Calfee.I don't shoot rimfire competition but I do own a Anschutz 2013 because it was the wildest looking rifle I had ever seen.I would like to have a chance at owning the worlds most accurate 22 rifle but I'm not willing to spend what it most lkely will fetch.A $100 here and a $100 there is one TANK OF GAS so I would buy several tickets and take my chances.I doubt Bill ever read the post before it was deleted.
Lynn
Steve
I think Bill Calfee has cloaked his ad so you can't see it.His used guns sell for $6000 and Bill doesn't get anywhere near that for a new gun.
It is nice to see that you actually know what nasty and petty means.I will remind you on the next Bill Calfee post as I know you'll be there.
Bryce
You never saw anything about an auction from Bill Calfee.
I know you Calfee haters are furious but lets not make stuff up.On the rimfire forum before Wilbur deleted the post I(Lynn) suggested Bill sells 250 tickets at $100 a piece for the rifle not Bill Calfee.I don't shoot rimfire competition but I do own a Anschutz 2013 because it was the wildest looking rifle I had ever seen.I would like to have a chance at owning the worlds most accurate 22 rifle but I'm not willing to spend what it most lkely will fetch.A $100 here and a $100 there is one TANK OF GAS so I would buy several tickets and take my chances.I doubt Bill ever read the post before it was deleted.
Lynn
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Bryce
Guest
Hang on a second Lynn,
I read the post and I read your comment. What you suggested is a raffle not an auction.
I don't recall the words that Bill used but the inference certainly seemed like he'd put it up for people to make offers on and the successful person (highest offer or otherwise, his choice presumably) could shoot it to make sure it was all he said it was.
Do I recall that at least half right ? If so then placing something up for offers is either an auction or a tender.
If I don't recall that properly, and Bill simply planned on putting a price on it and selling it to first person with the cash, then I will apologise.
Bryce
I read the post and I read your comment. What you suggested is a raffle not an auction.
I don't recall the words that Bill used but the inference certainly seemed like he'd put it up for people to make offers on and the successful person (highest offer or otherwise, his choice presumably) could shoot it to make sure it was all he said it was.
Do I recall that at least half right ? If so then placing something up for offers is either an auction or a tender.
If I don't recall that properly, and Bill simply planned on putting a price on it and selling it to first person with the cash, then I will apologise.
Bryce
I think it's about time he changed his business model.
Has the rifle been listed on the classifieds yet?
SteveM.
Joe Friedrich
Member
It's a tall claim Bill is making and hard to prove. If Bill stated it was the best he has ever built then I could justify that statement. Awhile ago it was this same thing with another Spec rifle.
After months of watching what has been going on here, Bill is no dummy, he likes the drama that he creates, this way he can see who is on his side and who is not.
Steve, I wish you luck if the rifle shows up in the classifieds, and I hope you don't live in California.
Take Care,
Joe
After months of watching what has been going on here, Bill is no dummy, he likes the drama that he creates, this way he can see who is on his side and who is not.
Steve, I wish you luck if the rifle shows up in the classifieds, and I hope you don't live in California.
Take Care,
Joe
R
Rich-Allen
Guest
I recently read an article about Bill Calfee and the man who owns Cooper rifles, I will post a link
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