Benchrest For Me?

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Phil3

Guest
Almost a year ago, Lynn (on this forum) invited me to his local range, and then to observe, help, and learn at a 600 yard match in Sacramento, CA. I learned a lot, with Lynn answering questions as best as one can between gun shots.

I walked away not sure benchrest was for me. Curious what drives others to do BR. Did you move from some other discipline?

My interest does lie in top accuracy. Hitting golf balls or other reactive targets at 600 yards would be fun, but am OK with shooting Xs at the same distance. I prefer the versatility of long range tactical rifles, but in truth, I will be primarily shooting off a bench at paper targets. Clash of non-sensible wants vs best fit for what I actually DO.

One thing that made me a bit unsure about BR is that it appeared shooters were somewhat disconnected from actually shooting the rifle, given the free recoil style, and the rifle guided by the bags. The shot seemed more automatic vs say a tactical rifle/shooter. I do not mean to diminish BR whatsoever, and am probably underestimating what it takes to shoot a BR rifle well.

And yet I turned around and built an AR15. :eek: While built for absolute top accuracy (hopefully .25 MOA), I built this gun because of the 11/2008 election. We all want whatever someone says we can't have, even if just a threat.

My quest for accuracy is still there, as I want other rifles in various platforms, (AR-10 in 260 Remington, AR15 in 6mmAR) to deliver top accuracy, even if they could never hold a candle to a dedicated BR gun.

I don't have any real interest in competition (yet), but I still want to have a highly accurate rifle for the local range. I am considering 30BR. Not really usable for anything else, but then do I really do anything else? Not really, though I wish I could shoot eggs, golfballs, etc. at some point in time! Maybe if I shot well, I would want to see how I could do against others.

Thanks.

- Phil
 
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I would guess I'm in same category, love shooting paper but once it becomes too mechanical (for lack of a better word) I lose interest. Putting 5 shots in a 1/2 inch group with a stock rifle thrills me.
 
hmmmmmmmmmmm sounds like both of you should consider a game with reactive targets. three gun, steel at long distance. br is technical, and a skill in gun handling on the bench...yes with a very lite trigger.

this forum is mainly 100/200 yd with some 300yd benchrest. for other games see other forums, other sites.

try local clubs for club level benchrest matches with less formal rules.

for long range see the 600/1000 yd forum

mike in co
 
Once you get bored by shooting ZERO groups day in and day out and nothing larger than that in BR, then I'd say move on to another shooting discipline with more of a challenge. ;)
 
Shooting at reactive targets and holding your gun is called silhouette shooting and while I have never tried it, I have watched a few times at the local club and it is a challenge to say the least. These type of games are dependant on the idividuals ability to hold steady and shoot with the right timing. Benchrest is about aiming bullets to shoot through the same hole or the dot on each target, which means there is some science involved. You have to learn how to tune a gun and to know when a gun is out of tune and do it while shooting in the wind and mirage with a time limit. I can guarantee you that you will never learn how with a factory gun that shoots a half minute angle.
 
I take it that you have not shot a Benchrest rifle under match conditions. Watching someone shoot, free recoil, off of a good rest setup can look deceptively simple. The only way that you will understand that it is not, is to give it a try.

Let me guess. You are not shooting over flags, and with the stock/rest that you are using, and at the trigger pull that you have, holding the rifle absolutely still as you pull the trigger is a concern, making you a member of the try harder school of how to shoot better. (Been there, done that.)

I say this, not to denigrate what you enjoy, but to illustrate something. Benchrest rifles have specially designed stocks, are generally well balanced, feature scopes of high magnification, have very light triggers, and are shot off of wonderful rests. BUT they are shot in matches where everyone has these advantages. It is sort of like looking at NASCAR and saying all you have to do is put your foot on the floor, and turn left. There is just a little more to it. In fact, it can be so complicated getting truly up to speed enough to be competitive that it can be well neigh impossible without someone who is experienced to guide you through the maze. Like the race driver, we compete in traffic, with comparably equipped "cars", and there is some awesome talent in the sport. Bottom line, there is a lot more to it than meets the eye. Having said that, certainly, go with what excites you the most, whatever that is. After all, we are supposed to be having fun.
 
I have shot perhaps 30 rounds out of a benchrest rifle (Lynn's). We were fireforming rounds, and I was not particularly accurate even at the 100 yards we were shooting. Maybe normal for fireforming? I think it was 6mmBR. I tried mimicking the free recoil I saw being used, but obviously from my results, it was not as simple as it looks, as you point out. On the other hand, I am not sure what else there is to do differently. Most certainly, I know precious little about shooting skills and would like to learn a lot more. I found it ironic that it was far easier for me to learn how to select parts and assemble an AR15, than it was (still is) to learn the skills to shoot well.

Your NASCAR example is good, and it brings me to another point. Some, and perhaps myself, are not interested in the full blown BR game, either because it is just too competitive, too costly, warrants more commitment than we are willing to contribute, etc. We just want to have some fun, compete against ourselves, or perhaps even compete against some others with inexpensive factory guns at an informal match. Instead of NASCAR, perhaps a Mazda Miata series, or even an autocross. BR intimidates, because from all appearances, a novice needs to go from 0 to professional grade with no stepping stones. If there are stepping stones, and I missed them, my apology. I thought 100/200 would be a good place, but that looks even more frightening than 600 yard. F-Class may be good, but no local range does them. Still, perhaps an F class Savage, high quality reload equipment, and a quality barrel on the gun, and see what I can do as a challenge to myself.

I recognize there is amazing talent in BR, and my untrained eyes and experience make it difficult for me to see. I know wind reading is an art, and after seeing what was going on at a windy Sacto mid morning, I was stunned anyone could keep a bullet on ANY target.

- Phil
 
I can speak to competition group shooting "Benchrest"

This is the game where you attend a match and try to shoot the smallest average group. That's quite a challenge and not for the casual shooter.
 
If you can't find enjoyment in trying to better your own shooting because you have to "beat others" to get your high, benchrest is not for you. Nor is any competitive shooting. You will eventually get burnt out if that is your mindset.
You must find recreation in trying to beat your best and not worry about anyone else or you won't find competition enjoyable. If so and so is kicking butt and you're not doing so well, the enjoyment comes from cheering him on that day and taking notes about what you're going to do different at the next match.

I like to see someone in a slump come out of it and really kick butt as well as winning anything myself. And to watch the lights come on inside the new shooter's head is a treat even the most experienced benchrest shooter enjoys.

Bottom line is the company of like minded individuals and the chance to make new friends and get re-aquainted with old friends whilst learning and fine tuning our shooting abilities is what keeps people coming back. Not the wood or the patches. If you agree, you'll love benchrest.
 
Thank you for comments.

My primary objective is personal improvement. Fact is, I mentioned in the original post I am not real interested in competition. My satisfaction will come from shrinking groups, especially if it resulted from me personally improving my skills or utilizing new found knowledge and experience to put together superior loads. What is worrisome, is the level BR operates at. I am not confident I wish to operate at that level in this shooting discipline. Nonetheless, I think starting off with some basic gear will permit to discover if the BR seed has taken hold and will it mature into just casual BR type shooting, or more formal BR that I see here.

If in competition, I don't want to be last, but if I see a path toward improvement, I can live with that. I just would not want to live there permanently, but who would?

- Phil
 
Often, when I have finished what I came for at the range, I look around to see if anyone is at a good place in their pursuit of accuracy to benefit from the experience of shooting a really accurate rifle. The reason for this is that many who could afford and enjoy an accurate rifle do not really understand how much of our results come from our equipment. A three four or five shot group in the 2's ( on an easy day) usually gets their mental wheels turning.
 
Great comments here guys doesn't matter if I agree or disagree I enjoy learning even at my ripe old age.;) I would suggest never be too arrogant about a sport as it drives some people away,certainly I've seen that in aviation through the years we lost a lot of young folks.
 
I always had a passion for military semi-autos . "Had" all sorts. Still have a few. (The accurate Match Rifles, Ar-15, M1a, M-1 grand) I also find myself primarily firing off a bench .I never shot any competition. (have wanted to) Over time I have found only the accurate rifles are interesting, ending at an ar-15 matched out for a sem-auto. Always taking hundreds of round to the range in the quest of the best group. $$.
Until I finally acquired a benchrest rifle . Now I have the greatest satisfaction
of how well a rifle can shoot .I fire much less amo, spend less time reloading and enjoy it more.
I belonged to a non-benchrest club and its funny when some of the shooters see your groups.
Adam
 
Competing in BR means different things to different people and most are valid. Some compete to win all the time, and some come to learn and see how far they have advanced against others while some just meet new friends and see who win the most quarters. The strange part is while most sports are viscous and tight lipped, in BR people loan rifles and bullets and equipment and will give good advice when asked and even when not asked. :)
 
I have said this many times.....

Benchrest shooting is the only sport I know of where you go to a private campground, the camping is real cheep, there are seldom any kids, all my friends are there and I get to shoot guns too. What could be better?
 
Phil:
There are many shooting games out there, each with their own set of skills to teach you. I compete in 4 position small bore, NRA highpower, NRA prone, F Class, and Benchrest score. I firmly believe that if you really want to become a better shooter then competition is the best way to do it. First, you must remember you are primarily competeing against yourself. Competition pushes you to try harder than you every will just shooting on your own. You will improve musch faster if you shoot in competition. If you have to win to be happy you should probably do something else. Second, competion puts you in touch with a lot of wonderful people who are more than happy to help you improve and will share in your progress. Also remember that it is just a game and therefore should be fun. I'm sure there is a game out there you would enjoy that fits your likes. Or, as in my case, a number of them. They each have something to offer. You might want to try your AR in NRA higpower service rifle. Have fun!
 
Until I finally acquired a benchrest rifle . Now I have the greatest satisfaction of how well a rifle can shoot .I fire much less amo, spend less time reloading and enjoy it more.
Adam

Yes, like that comment... Plain and simple truth. But myself, I tend to shoot more cause I can't get enough...!:):);)

cale
 
Phil3 said:
Almost a year ago, Lynn (on this forum) invited me to his local range, and then to observe, help, and learn at a 600 yard match in Sacramento, CA. I learned a lot, with Lynn answering questions as best as one can between gun shots.

I walked away not sure benchrest was for me. Curious what drives others to do BR. Did you move from some other discipline?
Click to expand...

Benchrest is not for everyone, but it is an addiction to many of us. Not a cheap addiction but at least it is legal.
 
oldguy said:
...I would suggest never be too arrogant about a sport as it drives some people away,certainly I've seen that in aviation through the years we lost a lot of young folks...
Click to expand...

I have read and heard, from Internet chatter, one firearm book, and from speaking to some, that the BR crowd can be arrogant, unfriendly, and unwilling to welcome newcomers. I personally have not found that to be the case, though on rare occasions, I feel I am being talked down to (not targeting this forum). Still, it is the BR crowd that invited me out to a match, let me shoot rifles, answered questions for me, offered to help me find a rifle, and provide personal phone numbers so I can call for even more information. Such help could come in a condescending manner, but the vast majority has not been. Overall, BR has been as accommodating as any, if not better than most.

One thing I do welcome with BR is a level of maturity not seen so much in the AR world. I am 56 years old, and most decidedly, not a "mall Ninja" type.

- Phil
 
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JCummings said:
Phil:
There are many shooting games out there, each with their own set of skills to teach you. I compete in 4 position small bore, NRA highpower, NRA prone, F Class, and Benchrest score. I firmly believe that if you really want to become a better shooter then competition is the best way to do it. First, you must remember you are primarily competeing against yourself. Competition pushes you to try harder than you every will just shooting on your own. You will improve musch faster if you shoot in competition. If you have to win to be happy you should probably do something else. Second, competion puts you in touch with a lot of wonderful people who are more than happy to help you improve and will share in your progress. Also remember that it is just a game and therefore should be fun. I'm sure there is a game out there you would enjoy that fits your likes. Or, as in my case, a number of them. They each have something to offer. You might want to try your AR in NRA higpower service rifle. Have fun!
Click to expand...

Could I ask how competition would make me a better shooter? I believe I am self motivated enough, and it is not hard for me to see or read somewhere what others have done and strive to do as well or better. I am not sure what I could do to "try harder" in competition vs what I would do alone.

My own experience at a BR match proves your point about the people. While many talked over my head, they were willing to talk and help me, even if I felt like a 1st grader with college grads.

I need more time behind a gun to better understand (and answer my own question "is benchrest for me") to know what disciplines push the pleasure buttons.

My AR is configured in such a way I do not think it would be eligible for NRA Highpower. It has a very light trigger and uses a scope. But, I plan on builiding another AR, so perhaps that is an option. I know little about it.

Thank you, and look forward to your response.

- Phil
 
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