Barrel tuning by adding weight experiment

Boyd Allen

Active member
Some time back, I decided to try something that I think some of you may find interesting. All that it took to do this experiment was one of those caliber specific case trimmers that consist of an end mill, a steel tube, and a plastic insert that fits the front of the case, and a roll of electrical tape. The trimmer that I used is about 625” in diameter and weighs a little less than 2 ¼ oz.

I have a barrel, for my 6PPC, that shoots its best groups at the top node with 67 gr. bullets. When I tried some 62 gr. Watsons, I found that the amount of powder required, to tune out the vertical, required all of my skill to get the required amount of powder in the case, a real pain in the neck.

At this point, I decided to see if by adding weight to the muzzle (to lower its vibration frequency) I could reduce the weight of the powder charge required to tune out the vertical. I should add that conditions were very good during the experiment.

To add weight to the muzzle, I first put a strip of tape at 6:00 o’clock, running back from the end of the barrel a little longer than the case trimmer. I then held the trimmer under the barrel even with its end, and secured it in place with a double wrap of electrical tape, stretched as tightly as possible.

With the weight in place, the rifle was in tune, for vertical, with a half click (Harrell’s measure) less 133, 55 instead of 55 ½. This amounts to about a quarter of a grain of powder. Reducing the load by this amount made the cases a little easier to fill. To complete the test, I cut the tape and removed the weight, which caused the vertical to reappear, and then increased the load to its previous level (55 ½), which tuned the vertical back out.

The next experiment that I plan involves an old Hart Barrel that has done its best with light bullets going fast. Last time at the range, I found that a load that it likes with 67 gr. bullets has bolt lift issues. The next time that I go to the range, I plan of having a couple of pieces of steel rod that I can tape to the end of the barrel, so see if I can get to the same tune with slightly less powder. If it works, I will set about having some weight removed from the barrel by stepping it, and fit a weight to the muzzle, a fixed weight/position tuner if you will, to tune the barrel so that the top node load occurs at a usable pressure level. The reason for this is that the heavier bullet has some advantages that I wish to be able to use with this barrel.

I am not abandoning tuners, just trying a different variation on the theme. Comments?
 
I find this interesting

my experience with CF tuners to date are weights added behind the muzzle with threads. What I have seen so far is a 4 oz weight behind HV barrels can change the shape of groups with as little as .003 movement. As I stated on the RF forum, I also have two HBR rifles that will not give me a round hole with 4 0z attached the same way. I have shot them each around 100 times and the best I can get is a horizontal two hole group. I am told this probably means more weight is needed. I have a third HBR barrel that responds the very best to moving the weight.

I have not tried changing the load at the best group to make the hole round; perhaps I should. What I find interesting is not having to move the weight to tune the barrel. Also, the shape of groups when moving the weight will often give a pretty good horizontal group which is repeatable. It would seem to me that having to tune with both powder and weight defeats the purpose of trying to keep a rifle in tune all day by moving the weight.

As I recall, Dick Wright uses a tuner that is nothing more than a movable weight attached to the barrel by a clamp with a piece of threaded rod attached to it to facilitate moving the weight. Apparently there is no magic in how the weight is attached.
 
My goal was different. I wanted to move a node (used to denote the charge/seating depth where a barrel shoots best) to a lower pressure/velocity.

One of the best CF tuner shooters, does not move his tuner once it is set, preferring to tune conventionally from that point. I think that having weight at the muzzle has advantages in that it increases the barrels tolerance for ambient changes and or powder charge variance while still remaining in tune, and apparently may be used to relocate a tuning sweet spot to a velocity that is more convenient from a pressure standpoint.

I guess that one of the unstated points of the story is that you don't always need fancy equipment to do meaningful experiments. I learned something that I believe will be useful, using what I had at hand, and some imagination. Ugly that works better can be OK. Once we know that it works, we can shine it up.
 
Some time back, I decided to try something that I think some of you may find interesting. All that it took to do this experiment was one of those caliber specific case trimmers that consist of an end mill, a steel tube, and a plastic insert that fits the front of the case, and a roll of electrical tape. The trimmer that I used is about 625” in diameter and weighs a little less than 2 ¼ oz.

The next experiment that I plan involves an old Hart Barrel that has done its best with light bullets going fast. Last time at the range, I found that a load that it likes with 67 gr. bullets has bolt lift issues. The next time that I go to the range, I plan of having a couple of pieces of steel rod that I can tape to the end of the barrel, so see if I can get to the same tune with slightly less powder. If it works, I will set about having some weight removed from the barrel by stepping it, and fit a weight to the muzzle, a fixed weight/position tuner if you will, to tune the barrel so that the top node load occurs at a usable pressure level. The reason for this is that the heavier bullet has some advantages that I wish to be able to use with this barrel.

I am not abandoning tuners, just trying a different variation on the theme. Comments?

Boyd, couple of suggestions that I determined when I shot tuners in 2005.
1-If you want to tune for the day about 3-6 oz will do that. If you want to tune the barrel, it will take at least 10 oz, depending on barrel stiffness-stiffer barrel, more weight.
2-As you are doing it, use 2 steel water hose clamps instead of the electric tape. Water hose clamps are available at any auto parts store. The electric tape will a) loosen as the barrel heats up, and, b) will allow secondary vibrations to occur as the tape loosens.
 
More Weight

Jerry, When you say 10 oz to tune the barrel is that to say if one added that much weight one would never have to worry about tuning again? ( A stopped muzzle, if you will )? Assuming one is using a load that normally works.
 
Jerry, When you say 10 oz to tune the barrel is that to say if one added that much weight one would never have to worry about tuning again? ( A stopped muzzle, if you will )? Assuming one is using a load that normally works.

Pete, I don't know about a stopped muzzle and all that stuff, I just know if I tune with a heavy weight the tuning window becomes much wider. That is not to say you can't get it out of tune. You sure can.

What I did, I took my "standard" load, a load that will shoot pretty good without fine tuning, then I tune the barrel to that load (on a 6PPC, 28.7g V133, bullet to just a whisker of jam). Then I finess with till it gets a competative tune. With the Fudd Centerfire tuner it would hold all day.
 
Jerry,
You can' keep posting on this board if you continue to mess up these theoretical discussions with hard data and actual experience. Shame on you.;)
 
Boyd Allen
When I was first playing with the tuner idea I used shaft collars available at most hardware stores.Places like Home Depot and Lowe's definitely carry them.
They have a single set screw and work very well plus as Jerry said they don't move on you.
On a 1,000 yard taper barrel what they call Max Heavy Varmint I find 11-13 ounces works very well.
I still have the collars and I also have collars that fit over those collars two or three more times so you can get a little over 3 pounds on the barrel.If you want them send me a mailing address were you can receive a package and I'll ship them out on tuesday after the holiday.
Lynn aka Waterboy
 
I also find this interesting. Some time back, I shortened the barrel on my rail
by 1.5 " , on the chamber end. Since that time, it shot pretty bad. I
noticed that just handling this thing, like lifting it from its base would
cause the barrel to humm. Tapping it, and you would think it was alive.
I made a weight about 14oz. to slip on the barrel about half its length.
It was counterbored to a close slip fit for about 1.5 inches, and nearly
1' thru the remainder. The weight adds to the length of the barrel, so
maybe half of it is past the muzzle. Tapping the barrel while moving
this weight allowed a much deader note. Now secured by set screws.
I have not tested on paper yet, but would be greatly surprised if
this did not make an improvement
 
Lynn,
Thank you for the generous offer. With our little 10.5# point blank rifles, I think that I am going to observe an upper limit of 6 oz. so that I can retain the balance that allows the option of heads up free recoil shooting. For that I think that I can get by with tape or hose clamps. If I can lower the sweet spot by a full half grain, within this weight limit, the next step will be to have steps turned on the barrel to take that much off. I will not reduce the muzzle, just carry that diameter back to the point that there is a difference of diameter of .1" where the step meets the original contour and then carry that diameter back to a similar step. I will think about doing one more smaller step. Then I will retest with clamped on weight to learn just how much less powder I can use, and then have a weight machined to fit to the muzzle. I may configure it to hang over the muzzle. And I will probably slide a Deresonator on the barrel just behind the weight, and count its weight as part of that added to the muzzle. After that I will probably do a little standard load tuning, and leave the hardware alone and shoot it for a while, to see if I can see any improvement (while waiting for some of the new 8202 to try).
 
Boyd
One more observation.On our unlimited heavyguns used in 600/1000 yard competition we use a 144 pound rest system under a 65 pound rifle on tracking rails.

In testing I have noticed the gun is extremely consistant in regards to group size.If you adjust the tuner to shoot big groups it will not shoot a small group.If you adjust the tuner to shoot small groups it will not shoot a big group.At this years 600 yard nationals I shot 50 shots and the extreme spread on those 50 shots was right at 3/4 of an inch.The guns finishing ahead of me were not that consistant at all.I hope I explained that right.
Waterboy
 
Boyd

When I installed the Beggs tuner, I imediatly noticed a larger tuning window, so the extra weight really can help reduce the powder charge. Not being the sharpest tool in the shed, I still had trouble getting the thing dialed in and "understandable".
Rodney Brown to the rescue.
Rodney takes notes........copious notes. AND he uses a Beggs tuner.
With his help, I now know that my rifle needs the tuner turned towards the reciever one clock position for every 3 degrees temperature rise.
60 degrees for the first target, set the tuner to 12 O:clock.
72 degrees for the second target, set the tuner to 8 O:clock etc.
By the way, this is with H322 powder.
Now, with the advent of the XBR powder and Lou's reports of SD, I have to wonder if the tuner will only be used to optimize a particular barrel? Or maybe the whole tuner thing will be a short page in BR history?
I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but if what I have read is true, XBR will make Benchrest a game dominated by the quality of the rifle and the shooter's ability to read the flags. Tuning for the conditions will be a non-issue.
Comments?
Bryan
 
Last edited:
Shaft collars work magnets work also.

DaRrealViper, da sho do. But, how are you going to precisely adjust them? On the Fudd 11oz centerfire tuner, I can adjust the collar as little as 0.014" linearly and take a group from a tight dot to a 0.35" triangle and back. (0.007" to a triangle then another 0.007" back to a dot)
 
Back
Top