Barrel engraving

H

hkcarbine

Guest
What is the norm in engraving a barrel on a custom rifle. In this case a 6.5X47L with a no turn neck. Would you indicate no turn or not?

Thank You,
Roger Q
AKA Hkcarbine
 
You could engrave the actual neck dia. 6.5 X 47 0.292 NK or whatever the reamer cuts.
 
I'm interested in this also; stamp or engrave? I see ATF requirements are 1/16" high by 0.003" deep and require caliber. I like seeing the neck diameter and twist as well, and maybe the barrel brand. Does anyone have any experience with laser engraving (heat?)? I'm currently stamping, but would like to know what others use to engrave their barrels. I've checked local engraving businesses, mostly trophy, and haven't been able to find anyone locally that can engrave a barrel for me. Thanks. nhk
 
nhkuehl---For laser engraving you can try this-
Kallenshaan Woods
http://www.kallenshaanwoods.com
Ken Nelson - 1-702-523-9236
940 Crazyhorse Way
Las Vegas NV. 89110

Ken does great work. Give him a call and he can give you all the info. It takes special jigs to do round objects and Ken holds patents on the one's he has developed. He does a lot of work for the penturning community.

Tom
 
FWIW I always engrave the cartridge as its written on the reamer that cut the chamber. I don't include things like freebore or throat angle, but ND is a MUST.

I just envision a potential liability issue someday so it just makes sense to me.

I write my stuff with software and a 4th axis on a CNC Mill. Here's a couple examples: These are machined with a carbide #1 Center Drill. No laser beams.

DSC_0049-2.jpg


Cathy Winstead's International SB Silhouette rifle:

Pink005.jpg
 
Engraving

NesikaChad said:
FWIW I always engrave the cartridge as its written on the reamer that cut the chamber. I don't include things like freebore or throat angle, but ND is a MUST.

I just envision a potential liability issue someday so it just makes sense to me.

I write my stuff with software and a 4th axis on a CNC Mill. Here's a couple examples: These are machined with a carbide #1 Center Drill. No laser beams.
Click to expand...

Thanks. That's exactly what I'd like to be able to do, but I'm a hobbiest and only have a manual lathe and stamps :( and a limited budget. Stamping leaves a lot to be desired. I've looked at a pantograph and that's about $2500+ and a stencil system that uses a chemical and electric current to etch(?). nhk
 
How about

a Hermes Engraver? I think some folks use them to do this kind of thing. there are also engraving places that do trophies, etc who could do some of this for you if you don't want to buy the equipment. you can get the hermes units used off Ebay.
 
NesikaChad, what software are you using to program your mill for engraving? I am looking for something that I can easily program text along with 4th axis compatibility.
 
Any CAM package should be able to do this. The one I have is an industrial application, that while quite powerful, isn't the most user friendly. There's much easier stuff to learn on that will do anything a gun shop could need.

Millwrite is a cheap engraving package that works pretty well. It can be a little awkward at times to use depending on how you set up your post processor.

If your mill has a "Y" axis substitution then it's a snap. Just make your text on a flat plane using X/Y then stick the Y axis sub call at the head of the program.

For this you could use any software that'll generate in a 2 axis plane. Just have to spit out code and then attach the Y axis sub at the beginning of the program.

Something like this:

G90G40G98G0G28(generic safety line)
G55(work offset)
T1M6(tool call)
M03S3500(spindle on clockwise at 3500rpm)
M08(coolant on)
G43G0H01Z.1(tool length offset call with rapid move to .1 over the top of the part)
G107R.625 (Y axis substitution call with the R value being the radius of your cylinder)

Then the code for your text generated from whatever software package you decide to go with. It'll be all G1 and G2/G3 moves. The control will automatically interpret the Y axis moves and convert them to A rotary.

I think the code at the end is a g108 to cancel. That or a G80 to cancel any canned cycles.

The rub can be with the feedrates. A lot of 4th axis set ups run in degrees per minute or radians instead of IPM. This can really screw up how a tool moves across the cylinder. Keep your feedrates VERY conservative (unless you happen to really enjoy digging engraving tools out of the barrel cylinder when they snap) until you get this part sorted out.

Also, ensure you have an actual 4th axis and not a power rotary table as the two are different. 4th axis your good to go, a rotary table will burn up in short order as the motor isn't designed to run with a constant load. Just be sure ahead of time.

Your machine's book is your best guide as a lot of this is proprietary and can vary a bit from machine to machine. When in doubt TECH LINE!!:D:D

Good luck.

C
 
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Quote: "Stamping leaves a lot to be desired"

I thought so too when I first started, but I saw lots of barrels with neatly stamped lettering so I figured it must be possible. A little practice on scrap barrels goes a long way. Use a piece of stiff, thin tape (I use auto body stripe tape) for a guide and learn to slide the actual letter on the end on the stamp lightly against the tape. It helps to clamp the barrel in a vice at a comfortable working height and have plenty of light. It also may help to carefully gring away some of the extra metal on the end of the stamp. There are still some very well known smiths that do it by hand stamping.

I work in a CNC shop and we do very nice engraving and sometimes graphics. I would love to be able to do it in my home shop, but I have a long list of stuff I need before I get a 4 axis machine or even an engraver. Someday! Incidently, our software makes it easy to project a toolpath onto a curved surface, so I could easily engrave rifle barrels on a 3 axis mill, if the taxpayers would let me.

Scott Roeder
 
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Stamping

SGS said:
Quote: "Stamping leaves a lot to be desired"

I thought so too when I first started, but I saw lots of barrels with neatly stamped lettering so I figured it must be possible. A little practice on scrap barrels goes a long way. Use a piece of stiff, thin tape (I use auto body stripe tape) for a guide and learn to slide the actual letter on the end on the stamp lightly against the tape. It helps to clamp the barrel in a vice at a comfortable working height and have plenty of light. It also may help to carefully gring away some of the extra metal on the end of the stamp. There are still some very well known smiths that do it by hand stamping.
Click to expand...

I'll have to try the tape. I bought a jig and haven't been happy with that at all. The idea of beating on something precision hasn't appealed to me either. One guy told me he's seen gunsmiths mill a flat for the stamping and I didn't like that idea. nhk
 
sgs said:
quote: "stamping leaves a lot to be desired"

i thought so too when i first started, but i saw lots of barrels with neatly stamped lettering so i figured it must be possible. A little practice on scrap barrels goes a long way. Use a piece of stiff, thin tape (i use auto body stripe tape) for a guide and learn to slide the actual letter on the end on the stamp lightly against the tape. It helps to clamp the barrel in a vice at a comfortable working height and have plenty of light. It also may help to carefully gring away some of the extra metal on the end of the stamp. There are still some very well known smiths that do it by hand stamping.

I work in a cnc shop and we do very nice engraving and sometimes graphics. I would love to be able to do it in my home shop, but i have a long list of stuff i need before i get a 4 axis machine or even an engraver. Someday! Incidently, our software makes it easy to project a toolpath onto a curved surface, so i could easily engrave rifle barrels on a 3 axis mill, if the taxpayers would let me.

Scott roeder
Click to expand...

mcx??
 
NesikaChad said:
mcx??
Click to expand...

mcx? Marine Corps Exchange?

Chad, I work at the aircraft rework facility at Cherry Point. Retired from the Corps in 93 and started at the NADEP in 94.

We use GibbsCam software and UniGraphics, but the Unigraphics is being phased out in favor of GibbsCam. The latest version has awesome power for solid modeling, using imported models, and we are really happy with it.

I'm not sure if any of this relates to your question.

Scott Roeder
 
MasterCam version X is what I was ref to.

I was in the suck from 90-96. 1371 and 8541 (or 31?) whatever a PMI is. (not to be confused with a SS as the MOS #'s are real close)

Cool!
 
I have etching equipment for sale if anyones interested.
My adds in tools in the reloading section,$250 for the whole set up includes the type writer to make the stencils.
I bought a new-hermes style engraving machine & dont need the other stuff anymore, thought I might sell it cheap to help some one out.
 
We also bought 2 new Hermes engravers this last year, and sold one. They are the absolute way to go for a fella that doesn't have $Xthousands tied up in 3 axis cnc mills with fonts packages, I believe you also need the (4th axis)rotary attachment to do barrels and dies. The second New Hermes we bought, we got too many Font kits, and are looking to sell a few. Complete full sets with punctuation and Upper and Lower case letters and Numbers.

I will post a few pictures of how the new hermes will engrave you barrels. There are two methods too, rotery shaft carbide cutting or diamond tip scribing, both work well.

Paul
 
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Here are a few pictures,

One is a .243 Winchester Match chamber the barrel was bead blasted before diamond scribing.

Another is the 30Br with .330 neck Broughton Barrel Chambered in April of 2004. diamond scribed on scotch brited barrel

the last is a barrel stubb that was used for setting up size and depth of cut for carbide rotary cut head. You'll notice that since the barrel doesn't rotate under the head, there are "horizon" issues with type sizing too large, you loose tops and bottoms of tall letters, secong from top looks to be about as large as you could cut with that cutter on that barrel.

Paul
 

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I have a new hermes diamond engraver and a NH motor engraver.

I have recently aquired a Dekel GK-21 and the thing produce the nicest looking engraving, very clean. It's the go to engraver for me now.
 
Good point Paul, The deckels are not given away, but if a guy keeps his eyes on surplus machine auction You can usually find good deals.

I paid $1600 for my deckel but it also came with 10 set of font. I also seen another one auction for $1700 with font sets.

I have in the past, purchased a Gotron P1-2 and a Famco P1-2. They work as well as the Deckel for engraving and those machines I paid $500 and $550. Both are now being used by gunsmiths here in Wisconsin.

My new hermes I found locally on Craigslist, it was a jewlery engraver with all the set ups to do cups, pens, rings, ect. That one came with 4 fonts and sold to me at $250.

If a guy is looking for an engraver that is just what you have to do keep looking every couple days on the web.
 
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