Barrel block location

G

Gene DeLoney

New member
I recently moved my barrel block forward 3 inches when I installed the rimfire barreled action so it is located about midway between the muzzle and the face of the action. Since it works very well with the rimfire setup, I decided to try the 6 ppc !.250 barrel with the block in this position. Didn't work. Scatters shots like a shotgun.
Just wondering if any one else has tried moving the block forward and come up with the same results.
Gene
 
Gene, I am contemplating doing away with the barrel block. Sometimes I think the block causes problems.

A number of years ago, Speedy had a Rail that had one of those old long Kelbley Action, a Polar, I think. It was simply bolted to the top, and the barrel hung out.

That was one of the best shooting Rails I ever saw.

I can picture one of the big Bat Actions, possibly a model L, bedded and bolted to the Top. It would be a simple matter to modify my top to accomplish this.
 
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Hi Jackie,
This is something that I tried and it didn't work. To much vibration. Scattered shots.
Like you, I had seen a long Kelbly action bolted to the top so I decided to bolt my BAT model M to the top. The first thing I noticed is that if I just bolted the action to the top I wouldn't be able to operate the bolt handle so I made up the block to raise the action up to be able to work the handle.I do think I remember seeing the top cut out for bolt handle clearance for the Kelbly setup but on my gun the way it is made that is not possible. A lot of machining for something that didn't work.
 

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Some barrel blocks seem to work reasonably well. This one belongs to Gary Ocock.
 

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Gene DeLoney said:
Hi Jackie,
This is something that I tried and it didn't work. To much vibration. Scattered shots.
Like you, I had seen a long Kelbly action bolted to the top so I decided to bolt my BAT model M to the top. The first thing I noticed is that if I just bolted the action to the top I wouldn't be able to operate the bolt handle so I made up the block to raise the action up to be able to work the handle.I do think I remember seeing the top cut out for bolt handle clearance for the Kelbly setup but on my gun the way it is made that is not possible. A lot of machining for something that didn't work.
Click to expand...

Gene - technically, those photos show an "action block" not a barrel block. A barrel block only "contacts" the barrel.
 
Gene DeLoney said:
Hi Jackie,
This is something that I tried and it didn't work. To much vibration. Scattered shots.
Like you, I had seen a long Kelbly action bolted to the top so I decided to bolt my BAT model M to the top. The first thing I noticed is that if I just bolted the action to the top I wouldn't be able to operate the bolt handle so I made up the block to raise the action up to be able to work the handle.I do think I remember seeing the top cut out for bolt handle clearance for the Kelbly setup but on my gun the way it is made that is not possible. A lot of machining for something that didn't work.
Click to expand...

You probably saved me a big headache. Thanks.

Gene, I have a big walnut plank that I have often thought of making a Rail to out of. Just for the heck of it.
 
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Gene DeLoney said:
I recently moved my barrel block forward 3 inches when I installed the rimfire barreled action so it is located about midway between the muzzle and the face of the action. Since it works very well with the rimfire setup, I decided to try the 6 ppc !.250 barrel with the block in this position. Didn't work. Scatters shots like a shotgun.
Just wondering if any one else has tried moving the block forward and come up with the same results.
Gene
Click to expand...

Did you re-tune the load to the new setup?
 
ELR Researcher said:
Gene - technically, those photos show an "action block" not a barrel block. A barrel block only "contacts" the barrel.
Click to expand...

You are correct, that is an action block. Attached is a pic of the barrel block setup for the rimfire barrel.
Gene
 

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jackie schmidt said:
You probably saved me a big headache. Thanks.

Gene, I have a big walnut plank that I have often thought of making a Rail to out of. Just for the heck of it.
Click to expand...

Jackie, I recall a fellow by the name of Eric Miller created a top made of wood, might have been laminated. Had round bars attached to the bottom and rode on aluminum V blocks with class 7 air craft bearings installed at 45 degree angles. This was back in the mid 1980's and as I remember the thing shot really well. His reasoning was that the wood top damped out a lot of vibration.
Let us know if you decide to give the wood a try how it works out. You might be pleasantly surprised.
But be on the look out for termites.
 
At our last match here at Ben Avery I walked the line and counted 34 rail guns and every one had the barrel block located close to the action face. And also all but 3 had Delrin sleeves around the barrel.
Some even have the block machined as part of the top so forget about moving those.
Maybe we should quit trying to build a better mouse trap.
But then again "nothing ventured, nothing gained' keeps coming up...................
Gene
 
Gene,

Thought you might find this interesting.

Many years back, up here in the NW, when Manley Oakely was in good health and doing experimenting, he tryed moving the block forward to see how it might work.

He redrilled his rail top so the block could be moved as far foward as possible, with a row of holes to the rear, so the block could be progressively moved back in regular increments.
With the block furthest forward, the groups were pretty poor. As the block was moved rearward, the groups became better and better, until in the rear most position did the the groups become acceptable.

FWIW
Steve Kostanich
 
Assuming that the barrel block is positioned directly in front of the action, are there any well established guidelines for the length of the barrel block, how much materials there should be around the barrel (the minimum thickness of the barrel block), and the weight of the barreled action?
 
Steve Kostanich said:
Gene,

Thought you might find this interesting.

Many years back, up here in the NW, when Manley Oakely was in good health and doing experimenting, he tryed moving the block forward to see how it might work.

He redrilled his rail top so the block could be moved as far foward as possible, with a row of holes to the rear, so the block could be progressively moved back in regular increments.
With the block furthest forward, the groups were pretty poor. As the block was moved rearward, the groups became better and better, until in the rear most position did the the groups become acceptable.

FWIW
Steve Kostanich
Click to expand...

Steve,
I never saw but heard of a setup where the barrel was mounted in a V block that was full length of the barrel.
The clamping block on top could be moved for and aft by means of a series of drilled and tapped holes.
Also, more than one clamping block was tried but I guess the results were mixed.
Gene
 
ELR Researcher said:
Assuming that the barrel block is positioned directly in front of the action, are there any well established guidelines for the length of the barrel block, how much materials there should be around the barrel (the minimum thickness of the barrel block), and the weight of the barreled action?
Click to expand...

My barrel block is 6 inches long with 4 bolts per side and is 3.5 in. wide by 3 in. tall. It looks like the Young block is a little bigger than that, and is about 8 inches long with 5 bolts per side.
I would think a typical barreled action with 1.450 diameter barrel would weigh in the vicinity of 12 lbs. depending on barrel length and action being used.
Gene
 
Has anyone tried running a Mann Accuracy device style V-bed?

Also, with the blockless Stolle rail mentioned earlier, any idea why it shot so good/how vibration was eliminated? Seeing as you couldn't get that style rail to work with your BAT M?

Would yall say theres much difference in the rails used in BR compared to the rails used in ammo/bullet testing, etc? Ie I aint never seen something like a Wiseman rail used in benchrest..
 
We shoot the Mann V-block for ammo testing at work. We are experimenting with other designs also, like Thompson bearing slides, and barrel blocks or action blocks. Nothing seems to be the perfect solution yet. We shoot .223 up to .338 Norma Mag. Each caliber has its preference.
 
jbhotrod said:
Has anyone tried running a Mann Accuracy device style V-bed?

Also, with the blockless Stolle rail mentioned earlier, any idea why it shot so good/how vibration was eliminated? Seeing as you couldn't get that style rail to work with your BAT M?

Would yall say theres much difference in the rails used in BR compared to the rails used in ammo/bullet testing, etc? Ie I aint never seen something like a Wiseman rail used in benchrest..
Click to expand...

There are several requirements of a good Rail Gun that is used in Benchrest Competition.

The first is to have true return to battery capabilities. That means a shooter can, by all expectations, shoot a group without ever looking through the scope and be confident that every shot will go into the group.

The second is easily accessed controles that do allow for quick adjustments in he point of aim if the need arises.

A foolproof sighter system that allows you to go to the sighter quickly and return to the record quickly.

Ease of setting up on the bench in the event of multi relay matches.

Any idea that meets these basic requirements will work.
 
That's it....!

Jackie described a good rail gun....one that won't move and can be shot quickly...win or lose.
 
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