My thread re. lot testing Lapua kinda got off the direction I was headed. I've got a new rifle in the works. I do NOT have deep pockets. I suspect that I'll wind up using either Lapua Center X or Eley "Black Box". What are the odds that I'll come up with a good, competitive "lot" (to purchase by the case) if I carefully test 1 box each of, say 5-6, different lots of each product (10-12 boxes total). Am I dreaming?
Back to Lot Testing
- Thread starter abbydad
- Start date
Well, short answer is you're mostly dreaming.....for now. For a new gun, here's what I'd consider. First, don't overwhelme yourself. Frankly the Center X is fairly, again fairly good but doest not seem to reliably shoot outdoors in the wind. IMHO concentrate on ELEY. It may very well take you 2 shipments to get situated because nobody bought much reliable ELEY early in the year pre London games so what came in got mostly bought fast, i.e. you just don't have the benefit of much time. Next shipment test...see what machine/speed your gun likes. If you find something good and it's still around, you're set, if not, you've greatly narrowed the serarch and might be prepared to by a modest amount the very next shipment. You have to realize that today there are some that bulk buy and team test so you're fighting some organizationalissues here. It's out there and buyable.
Dave S
NRA Benefactor Member
No, you are not dreaming.. If this is your first time to enter the "great ammo chase", I would buy four or five lots of each of the ammo brands that you are interested in and I would buy different speeds from 1050 fps to 1070 fps and see what speed you rifle likes. Then I would concentrate on that speed and buy four or five different lots, at that speed or near that speed, from different machines (Eley) to see what machine shoots best in your rifle. Once you find a good shooting speed and machine, then in the future stick to that machine and close to the speed your rifle likes..
Oh.... and one thing more...As soon as you find a good shooting lot, buy all of that lot number that you can afford. When it is gone, then start over...
Hope this helps..
Dave
Jerry W
Jerry Wick
I have a question that I think is related to this discussion. You guys are both saying to try different speeds to see what the rifle likes, then concentrate on that speed.
I thought you could tune the barrel with the tuner to work with any speed. Is there something I'm not understanding about tuning?
I was hoping that my testing would be done to find the most consistent ammo, rather than looking for a certain speed.
Obviously, I'm new to the rimfire game, but not new to Benchrest. Next year will be my first season of rimfire.
Thanks for any help,
Jerry
I thought you could tune the barrel with the tuner to work with any speed. Is there something I'm not understanding about tuning?
I was hoping that my testing would be done to find the most consistent ammo, rather than looking for a certain speed.
Obviously, I'm new to the rimfire game, but not new to Benchrest. Next year will be my first season of rimfire.
Thanks for any help,
Jerry
Pete Wass
Well-known member
It all depends on who you wish to listen to with regard to any of this. Dave S has given you some very good advice, in my opinion. There are a lot of divergent opinions on tuning RF rifles. I would recommend the Hopewell Method of finding Tune for your rifle. It has worked for me. I did it before I know it had a name. I have also found my rifles perform best when I move the tuner a bit, depending on atmospheric conditions but that may be a phenomenon that only I find to be true. Many folks say that once they find their tune, they never touch they tuner again. Me, I'm not afeared to move mine a little now and again.
T
TangoTwo
Guest
If you're new to rimfire benchrest don't be overly concerned with finding "killer" ammo. That is not to say you don't need good ammo, you just won't know what you have until you learn to read the wind. The others here have given you good advice. Test as they have suggested and pick what you think shoots the best in your rifle. Just don't stress yourself out over the whole process. Once you have decided what to buy, go shoot, a lot! Practice in all conditions, it's the only way you'll learn.
Good luck.
Ken Henderson
Good luck.
Ken Henderson
Most properly set up guns will shoot sereral speeds OK but will have a preferance for best results. If you establish that and find your optimum tune ,then the gun is tuned. If you query some of the better smiths, rarely will you hear about tuner adjustments.
mrspradlin
Graham Wind Flags
I know where you are coming from. The ammo chase can be a real challange when you are on a limited budget.
I have spoke with Mr. Stettmeier at the Lapua rimfire test center about sending my new build down to him and having him test what they have and send me the results so I could choose what lot I feel would work best in that rifle. Its pretty straight forward. You can send them the barreled action with return postage paid and a check for $50.00. You tell them what you want tested. They test it and email you the results and you choose what lot you feel is best for you and you buy it. The draw back is you have to buy in case quantity. The nice thing is they will test any rimfire ammo they make in Lapua and SK unlike the new ELEY test center where they just test TENEX.
Now think of this. You order 12 boxed of ammo at 10.95 each thats $129.00 plus about 20 in shipping your looking at around $150.00 and you may or may not have found the best ammo. So its almost a toss up.
Now I am not pushing Lapua one bit and have nothing to do with them. I am just passing on information I received from looking into there test center.
Good luck and have fun
Matt
I have spoke with Mr. Stettmeier at the Lapua rimfire test center about sending my new build down to him and having him test what they have and send me the results so I could choose what lot I feel would work best in that rifle. Its pretty straight forward. You can send them the barreled action with return postage paid and a check for $50.00. You tell them what you want tested. They test it and email you the results and you choose what lot you feel is best for you and you buy it. The draw back is you have to buy in case quantity. The nice thing is they will test any rimfire ammo they make in Lapua and SK unlike the new ELEY test center where they just test TENEX.
Now think of this. You order 12 boxed of ammo at 10.95 each thats $129.00 plus about 20 in shipping your looking at around $150.00 and you may or may not have found the best ammo. So its almost a toss up.
Now I am not pushing Lapua one bit and have nothing to do with them. I am just passing on information I received from looking into there test center.
Good luck and have fun
Matt
C
cpeters
Guest
Frankly even aside from the cost of testing lots....for me it is more about when those test lots come in being able to get away during daylight hours and hoping for decent weather as we approach fall and winter and make a decision and buy before it is gone. Personally, I don't think it does you alot of good to test ammo in 30 and 40 degree weather that you are going to shoot next summer when it is 90. You may get lucky.
Charlie
Charlie
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I agree with what Charlie has said, pretty much and found what he said to be the case BUT, Two years ago I was able to test ammo inside, during the winter and found three lots of ammo that were great. One lot would shoot well in both my rifles and the other two shot great in my 10.5 rifle. I saved the best lot for my Sporter and shot the other two in the 10.5 rifle. It's pretty well gone now and the ammo I have bought since works sometimes in some places and not in others so I carry some of all of it with me. I would like to be able to repeat my experience from two years ago at some point. Those first three lots I spoke of seemed to shoot well in most situations.
Also, I haven't done any specific testing for this but generally, both of my rifles seem to like ammo with a published speeds in the 1060's. I have found very good ammo inn the 1050's and 1070's . I don't know what that says but it's my suspission that Good lots of ammo are good lots of ammo, regardless of the published speed.
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K
katokoch
Guest
Fred what if it is a crap lot of ammo to begin with?
Your right Pete, some lots just seem to shoot well in multiple barrels, good lot or good luck, who knows for sure? I know that the velocities on the box are aprox. at best. I've chronographed lots listed at 1036 actually shooting at 1072 from my particular guns. I've been using Eley for several years but finding a good lot and having it all sold has become frustrating. At the end of this month I'm making the drive to AZ to test at the Lapua facility.
If I'm lucky I'll come back with enough to keep me shooting for a couple more years, if not I may just devote my time to airguns.
Dennis
If I'm lucky I'll come back with enough to keep me shooting for a couple more years, if not I may just devote my time to airguns.
Dennis
Message to BRC.........don't buy ammo from Fred.
C
cpeters
Guest
I took it the way you meant it Fred......Seems like some good ammo shoots in anything, but others that has shot well for me has shot like a dog in some other very competetive rifles and vice versa.
Do really believe that someone is selling ammo because it is the best stuff they found? Many times you sell your good ammo because you found something that you think is better.
Charlie
Do really believe that someone is selling ammo because it is the best stuff they found? Many times you sell your good ammo because you found something that you think is better.
Charlie
Charlie: Hardly ever sell my left over test ammo. The Juniors sure like it, that it's free ammo. I've got 8 lots in my safe, both Lapua and Eley, and each likes a different barrel. Guess the jokes on me there. I gotta start using just one gun, if I could find that right barrel.
Slick Willy
Member
Charlie ,I sold a lot of ammo this year(11 cases), always hunting when a new shipment comes in. I`m guess I was a ammo hoarder cause when we first started none was availible to us for a year and then got guts & feathers cause I thought all Eley was the same,I learn pretty quick! now I guess I sold some good ammo #2 & #3 on the ARA A-Line and the Winner of this years PSL were shooting stuff I sold them from the year 09,I knew it was good stuff but I`m shooting good stuff and still buying(2 cases off this shipment) I like to think that no one has any better ammo at a match than me ,so when I loose it`s my fault not that I needed better Ammo, If you have great equipment ,which I do, two big varibles Remain ,the Ammo & Me. You have to have Great ammo to compete with Miller,Corvin, Richardson, McDonald,Kennimer,&Reed cause they shoot better than me ,if I beat that bunch which I do occassionally,is because I have the best ammo!
H
Hambone
Guest
It's not that you just get lucky?
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Money well spent, IMHO. I found a lot of Lapua @ the 50/50 Nationlas that seems as good as any of the Eley I have and, if weighing and measuring means anything, it would be greatly superior. On th other hand, I would want to be able to sit at a bench with my rifle and test vs having it bolted into a vise and then make a decision based on electronic pictures of what happened. I would also want to be able to test some of the lesser expensive lots.