Attaching Sail Tails to wind flags

adamsgt said:
Thanks for the offer Butch but I don't think the tails I have lend themselves to your method due to the pointy end. That said, I was advised to use snap swivels to attach the sail tails because they tend to wind themselves into a pencil in strong winds if not allowed to rotate. So, after a visit to Academy Sports here's a pic of what I came up with. Looks kind of kludgy, but I've never been a master of clever design. Have to take it out into the wind and see what it does. Wait a minute, I have a pedestal fan in my workshop. Could try it out there. It should only be about 98 degrees in there.

View attachment 22645

9k=
9k=
Click to expand...


Jerry, I thought you were speaking of windflag tails, not fishing tackle.
 
adamsgt said:
Now I'm so confused. :confused:
Click to expand...

I just don't want them spinning around. Sail tails should have the open side on top. I.e...concave on top, convex on bottom, as seen with them standing out horizontally. But whatever makes ya happy. I don't see it making a lot of difference.
 
mwezell said:
I just don't want them spinning around. Sail tails should have the open side on top. I.e...concave on top, convex on bottom, as seen with them standing out horizontally. But whatever makes ya happy. I don't see it making a lot of difference.
Click to expand...

I've only used surveyors tape to this point so I'm just trying to get as many opinions as I can. At this point it probably wouldn't hurt me to have a couple of each set up and see how they look. I'm planning on making new vanes after the Rattlesnake anyway.
 
adamsgt said:
I've only used surveyors tape to this point so I'm just trying to get as many opinions as I can. At this point it probably wouldn't hurt me to have a couple of each set up and see how they look. I'm planning on making new vanes after the Rattlesnake anyway.
Click to expand...

They each have their pros and cons. I'm not a fan of surveyor tape but its ok in lighter winds and is what most people use. It maxes out fast and just flutters all over. Pretty much useless at that point.

Sail tails don't move quite as easily but the stay straight and raise and lower like the needle on your gas gauge, linearly. IMO, sail tails are the way to go with my flags. The biggest down side is that they are a bit more trouble to care for. The need to be stored in the tube that they come in. IMHO, they're worth the trouble.
 
mwezell said:
They each have their pros and cons. I'm not a fan of surveyor tape but its ok in lighter winds and is what most people use. It maxes out fast and just flutters all over. Pretty much useless at that point.

Sail tails don't move quite as easily but the stay straight and raise and lower like the needle on your gas gauge, linearly. IMO, sail tails are the way to go with my flags. The biggest down side is that they are a bit more trouble to care for. The need to be stored in the tube that they come in. IMHO, they're worth the trouble.
Click to expand...

+1 :)
 
I agree with Mike. I can't judge wind very well, but flopping and twisting tails do not tell me anything. As Mike said, there are more than one way to skin the lion.
Jerry, your pointy ends are not a problem. A scissor will fix that. Bend the end over and super glue it.
 
Butch Lambert said:
I agree with Mike. I can't judge wind very well, but flopping and twisting tails do not tell me anything. As Mike said, there are more than one way to skin the lion.
Jerry, your pointy ends are not a problem. A scissor will fix that. Bend the end over and super glue it.
Click to expand...

Butch, I scrutinized your picture more to get a better feel for your design. Is the tail a sail tail with the open side up? The tail holder looks like you took a piece of wire and put two bends in it to make a triangle and bent a catch on one free end to capture the other after threading it through the vane. Is that correct? Did you glue the tail to the holder? I'm going to order another set in the same color and try it both ways. They're not that expensive. I'll try them as them come first and then snip some square and fashion the holders as you have. Any particular type of wire you used?

One question about sail tails unrelated to construction. How do they hold their shape in the rain? Seem to have had a fair amount of rain at Raton.

Hmmm, guess old coat hangers could work.
 
Last edited:
adamsgt said:
Butch, I scrutinized your picture more to get a better feel for your design. Is the tail a sail tail with the open side up? The tail holder looks like you took a piece of wire and put two bends in it to make a triangle and bent a catch on one free end to capture the other after threading it through the vane. Is that correct? Did you glue the tail to the holder? I'm going to order another set in the same color and try it both ways. They're not that expensive. I'll try them as them come first and then snip some square and fashion the holders as you have. Any particular type of wire you used?

One question about sail tails unrelated to construction. How do they hold their shape in the rain? Seem to have had a fair amount of rain at Raton.
Click to expand...

Kinda depends on what kind of shape they're in. They do pretty well when new but as they age, they seem to take on water more. I spray mine down with tent water repellent. Same basic materials
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Scotchga...MIu9LK7u--4wIVCZ6fCh125w7VEAQYASABEgKQ8_D_BwE
 
Who sells fluorescent orange sail tails with gromets? Only place I found with that color (killoughs) is out of stock.
 
Would the balance need to be changed when going from the tails originaly sent with the Graham flags to the sail tails?
 
The difference in weights is negligble. For that matter, we use different length tails depending on the heights of the flag as dictated by terrain.
 
Tail clips

I get these on Amazon, 100 for about $6, 3/4” book rings, easy to put on and off, never had one get loose.
 

Attachments

  • 277BE716-5EC0-49AD-BBC6-D68F7FE98BE5.jpeg
    277BE716-5EC0-49AD-BBC6-D68F7FE98BE5.jpeg
    194.5 KB · Views: 134
Balancing a flag sometimes makes it less responsive. I sold a lot of flags and ended up making the "vane" quite large because folks seemed to think a balanced flag worked best. Most, if not all, flags work because the tail has more area on one side of the pivot than on the other. Comparatively expensive, a bearing for the pivot point would be best as that takes the "balance" out of the equation...at least I think it would (should).
 
Wilbur said:
Balancing a flag sometimes makes it less responsive. I sold a lot of flags and ended up making the "vane" quite large because folks seemed to think a balanced flag worked best. Most, if not all, flags work because the tail has more area on one side of the pivot than on the other. Comparatively expensive, a bearing for the pivot point would be best as that takes the "balance" out of the equation...at least I think it would (should).
Click to expand...

Ultimately, weight becomes the main factor here. You can spin a heavy object on a ball but you can spin a feather without one. Adding weight makes friction more and more critical. Add a big enough vane(sail) and it can move a yacht, for example, just not very responsively. Adding more vane equals more weight..which means adding adding weight to the front to counter it...which means more overall weight, etc.
I tried using a bearing of different styles and just a single ball for the pin to contact with my flags. Roller bearings were the worst and I couldn't discern any advantage using a ball at the end of the pivot pin, with my flags. But again, if they were heavy, it would progressively make more and more difference.

There's more than one way to skin this cat too, but I did not haphazardly design my flags. There was a lot of thought put into every detail. I even had help from a friend who is an aeronautical engineer, fwiw. This wasn't a multi million dollar govt research on wind flags but more of a case where a very qualified friend offered his input over beers on a few occasions. I just paid attention and I learned a lot. I won't mention his name but a member on here called me out of the blue one day and we talked wind flags for a bit. He is a Navy contractor or something to that effect and had access to a wind tunnel. He told me about he and a friend or so had put some different br wind flags in that tunnel and tested them. I don't remember the details but the gist was in regard to how a daisy affected the responsiveness of the vane and flag itself. To make a long story short, my flags performed very well and the pinwheel design that I use is apparently a very good one where br flags are concerned. ;)

So, how many other flags have had an aeronautical engineer and a freakin military wind tunnel used in their design and testing, I ask. Lol! :cool:
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top