AR trigger for precision work

Mike,

David Tubb managed to modify a Knight's to 18 ounces. 14 oz first stage, 4 oz second. Only took him two triggers to get it right.
 
Not sure about 8-12oz.

From my research, the lightest pull in single stage, as advertised, is 1.5lbs by Jard. JP Rifles is 3-3.5lbs single stage as advertised.

For the Geiselle and Jewell, both 2 stage trigger designs, both stages can be adjusted. On the Geiselle, the 2nd stage can be in oz (4-14oz I think). You may also be able to swap the stages, and make the 2nd stage heavier than the 1st, but I am not sure.

Most of the others have fixed pull weight. But you can pick the weight.

For a 1911, which is, of course, single stage semi-auto, 2.25lbs is pretty light but not uncommon in a hopped up custom. Not sure a lightweight pull in semi-auto has been done in a production/aftermarket trigger. Especially with the recoil of a rifle cartridge.

A lightweight "speed" hammer with some lighter weight springs for reducing lock time is great. To be sure, the shape of the hammer, sear, trigger need to be addressed for smoothness, etc. of any of these triggers.

Reading on many sites, including ARF.com, none of these aftermarket triggers are reliable as the factory military basic trigger. If your rifle is dual-purpose, you may want to have 2 triggers.

I run a loading block when I am at the range, so I can run springs that are light enough to cause doubling or tripling in my case, so they are easily swapped out with heavier springs using anti-walk pins in the trigger and hammer when I head to the hunting lease.

The market is really appealing to the "tactical" crowd that want more precision.

For my DPMS trigger, the distance travelled is quite large and the let-off is inconsistent. An expert, such as Bill Springfield, will shape the hardware to improve on this. I have emailed Bill before, and he was great. I was before unable to part with my rifle long enough, but since he is selling them outright, I will have to decide to go that route or maybe Big Al has a good price.

Big Al: didn't see how to send a message or your email. Here is mine: F o r n e y R i d e r @gmail.com.
 
I've tried Jewel, Jard, Rock River, and JP. In my experience, none of them will go much lighter than 3 pounds unless you use a VERY weak hammer spring, and I sure don't recommend that. A light hammer spring will slow lock time considerably, and you can even get ignition problems.

Two stage triggers can provide a lightened second stage, and some of them are real crisp, but I still like the "feel" of the complete JP trigger asm (when it's installed properly). I always use the heaviest hammer spring I can find.

- Innovative
 
Yea, the surfacing of the JP Rifles trigger with a belt sander and spending time fitting the trigger would be better for me to send off to JP Rifles or other 'smith to do.

Sending my stock DPMS single stage over to Bill Springfield sounds good too. So I may do both. Hunting season is here so this rifle can be worked on.

The Williams set trigger sounds like the way to go for ultralight crisp trigger pull.

Thanks for all the info. If anyone has a way of getting a hold of Big Al in Palmer, can you let him know I'm interested in the JP trigger?

Thanks everybody for your input.
 
Larry Willis
You have tried the JARD and it wont go below 3 LBS?
Are you kidding me!
I have 10 ar's with jard 1 1/2 pound adjustable trigers in every one of them
And everyone is with in a ounce of 1 1/2 pounds.
You must have had there 3 lb model.
 
Mrgunslinger ........

If your JARD triggers operate "SAFELY" at 1.5 pounds, your hammer springs must be weak enough to cock with your eyelash. Either that or you're using a very different JARD trigger than I've ever seen. I purchased one from Brownells a few years ago. It was the only JARD trigger they stocked at that time.

- Innovative
 
This offer is for FornyRider

First I am no way connected to this company in any way other then I buy there product.
Here is the deal!
You buy the jard 1 1/2 ar trigger.
If in anyway you dont like it I will buy it from you.
How many other will stand behind the product they have mentioned
Here is my E Mail address
Shmartin70@aol.com

Internet is great,everyone is a expert especialy people who have not used a product.
 
Mrgunslinger ........

I have no idea if you're using a different or newer version of their trigger. All I'm saying about the particular JARD trigger I tried, is that it wouldn't work anywhere near 3 pounds when using a heavy hammer spring. Even the more expensive Jewell trigger wasn't impressive unless it's hammer spring was cranked up to the maximum setting, and that increased the trigger pull considerably.

Trigger pull weight, travel, crispness, and lock time are all important considerations when selecting a trigger mech. That's probably why so many companies make so many different triggers.

- Innovative
 
Right on Larry
Maybe you didnt have there adjustable model.
For some reason they offer a adjustable model and a fixed model.
I wouldnt want a trigger thats wasnt adjustable.
Who knows,but I know the 1 1/2 lb adjustable models are fantastic better then the others triggers I tried.
And I can afford anyone made.
 
I am still waiting to hear back from Big Al. The JP Rifle trigger and the Bill Springfield worked trigger are in the lead for me. I prefer a single stage. I've read tons of posts on Bill Springfield, and all of them were positive.
http://www.jprifles.com
http://www.triggerwork.net/arparts.html

The single stage trigger is one of the reasons why I went with the DPMS in the first place. One of the online reviewers tested the stock pull of the DPMS Panther bull AR at 6lbs, highest of all the factory "varmint" AR's tested.
http://www.dpms-inc.com

For a 2 stage, the Geissele SSA (match). The first stage can be set from 1.3-3lbs, the 2nd stage can be set to break in 4-14oz. It has a high speed hammer, and overtravel and sear engagement are adjustable. Geissele's website is pretty but unfinished, so try White Oak Armament.
http://www.geissele.com/
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/

I think the set trigger of the Williams is a fantastic idea for a crisp semi-auto trigger. http://www.williamstriggers.com/

I didn't know Jard had so many options.
http://www.jard.com
 
ForneyRider said:
I am still waiting to hear back from Big Al. The JP Rifle trigger and the Bill Springfield worked trigger are in the lead for me. I prefer a single stage. I've read tons of posts on Bill Springfield, and all of them were positive.
Click to expand...

I bought a DPMS 308, and it had a stock DPMS trigger that was as bad as most folks say they are. It pulled hard at about 7 lbs and was very creepy.

Yes, I too heard all the praise for Bill, so I sent the trigger in to him with $50. The trigger is 3lbs now and pulls with less creep, but it still creeps a bit before the final release. The bottom line is it is greatly improved, but is still not what any dedicated targer shooter would want. Keep in mind that a lot of folks that own AR rifles often are not precision shooters, and will not even notice a little bit of creep. If your trigger creeps and crunches like my junk DPMS trigger had done when new, then don't be surprised if Bill Springfield cannot work wonders on it. If you're starting out with junk, you might be better off to put the $50 toward a good trigger.

But, maybe I was just unlucky. Dunno. If I had to do it again, I'd rather had bought his trigger group for $129 and have him assure me that it "breaks like glass" . As long as he sold it to me under those pretenses, I would then have every right to make him abide by it.

My trigger is his 3lb job and 100% ignition reliable. If anybody not concerned about that slight creep before release wants it for $75 shipped let me know. I've been too lazy to pull it out of my rifle and I have been using it for target. I'm going with a high end trigger next.
 
Regarding single stage triggers in ARs, White Oak had this to say.

You will never get a single stage trigger on an AR that will stand up to the constant use of a competitive HP rifle unless it has a lot of creep, and I don't think you want that. The ONLY way to reduce creep in any of the single stage AR triggers is by reducing sear engagement. By time you get the sear engagement to the point that you do not have any noticable creep, you do not have enough left for reliability. For the casual shooter who shoots 500 rounds a year, or for the guy who likes to shoot little groups off a bench and can readjust his trigger ever shooting session, that may be fine. However, the HP shooter needs a trigger that breaks the same every time, and a trigger that can make it through at least two weeks of the nationals, preferably a whole season, without having to tinker with it. Also, if you get the creep down to a point where you do not have any perceivable trigger movement when you break the shot, the safety is not going to be reliable. The safety in an AR blocks trigger movement, not the hammer. If you only have .010" of trigger movement, then you are going to have to have the safety within .010 of the trigger when in the safe position. This is a little tougher than just removing the safety.

See here for the link to the same.

http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/whiteoakprecision/info-faq.htm#singlestage

I used a Geissele Match trigger. First stage is just over 2 lbs, using a Lyman digital trigger pull gauge. It is pretty much even pull weight all the way through to a definite stop at stage two. I adjusted the trigger to release when I added another 8 oz, meaning total trigger pull is about 2 lbs., 10 oz. The second stage can be taken down to 4 oz. No creep at all on the second stage, just breaks like glass. Expensive though.

- Phil
 
Phil3 .......

The Geissele Match trigger is a superior mechanism compared to any single stage. It has less pressure on the sear, and (in theory) it should last a lot longer. However, I've used the JP trigger since it was invented (probably 10 years ago), and after firing countless thousands of rounds, it hasn't ever failed. However, it is a difficult, time consuming trigger to install properly, and I'll bet that most are not fitted as well as they should be.

- Innovative
 
I very nearly bought the JP, and may still, on another rifle, but will have JP install. For $40, it seems a very prudent thing to do to assure optimal performance.

- Phil
 
I picked up the JP trigger with speed hammer. Going to go through the directions.

Thanks for all the replies.
 
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I have installed 2 JARD triggers in 2 ARs-- one an Oly Arms K8 mag and the other a DPMS 5.56 rifle. They were both easy to install and adjust as long as you follow the instructions. They both adjust down to 1.5 pounds single stage and have worked just fine for me for well over a year each. Neither has failed to function safely. I've probably shot over 2000 rounds in the two rifles this year alone.
 
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I have a jp on a very recent build...working fine but only about +/-300rnds.


You will be happy.

pf
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I shoot mostly 3-gun but some 600yd slow fire and closer sniper type fun matches as well.
I have Jewel, Geisselle, JP, Timney, and modified stock.
For a short, light single stage the Timney is hard to beat. Too short for my 3-gun shooting as I couldn't do super fast double taps with it without slapping the side. You can adjust it for pull weight and disconnector. I've seen them come out of adjustment at least twice during a match so far:(
Jewels tend to be a little inconsistent in their manufacture and each time you pull the trigger they can feel different depending on how you have it set. That's why most of mine are just set for single stage operation so they reset sooner. I had one that was non-function when you put KNS anti-rotational pins in. It wouldn't release the hammer. I modified it to work:)
One other note about the Jewel: If you use the KNS pins, You can put in a normal or XP hammer spring from the Mil-spec type hammer to decrease your locktime.
Haven't played with the Jard Yet or some of the others listed in OP.
AR Gold on order.
Quick note on trigger lube: Just use anti-sieze!


Nick
 
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