another thought problem, NOT gun related

BTW.... it looks as though FBecigneul is right and I am wrong regarding iceboats. I was not aware that an iceboat could swap tacks that efficiently but here in this link that claim is made and stated as possible. So I'll stand corrected. I still don't believe a boat can ever be made to catch a balloon but perhaps an iceboat can.

This link, paragraph 7 3rd line

http://dwfttw.blogspot.com/#2
 
And be aware, when I say "CATCH" or "PASS" a balloon, that means something. Traveling laterally and making way downwind laterally is running away from the balloon. Unless you can zigzag while keeping the downwind component at "faster than the wind"..... it ain't catching a balloon.
 
FBecigneul said:
That balloon is full of hot air if you think it can go faster downwind than a sailboat. Your analogy is faulted. Or, it’s B.S.
Just thought of something; when was the last time you sailed and what were the balloons doing out there?
Click to expand...

Beggs will remember the thread that had two shooters hot air balloons drifting 20mph and 100yds apart..... what's the holdoff LOL? ! !
 
rsmithsr said:
just as a note....have you watched the AMERICA'S CUP 'BOATS ??
Click to expand...

I live at the mouth of The Columbia River Gorge..... I poured a basement today in White Salmon which looks down on The Dalles, Windsurfing Capitol of the World. From the jobsite and driving the Gorge today I watched hundreds of kites/sails/foils doing flips and spins and jumps, these dudes go 30-40 mph and catch air for dozens of yards.......cutting across the wind like swallows around the barn, making a Cup Race look doggy. I've got a kite that'll yank a board 'wayyy faster than the wind and carry my fat butt for 50yds thru the air. I'm too out of shape but several of my employees and a lot of my friends, couple my my bro's on laws and sons can ride a wingsurfing hydrofoil at goofy speeds.

But I don't think they could run down a balloon

I may be wrong, but I'd put money on it....
 
An America’s Cup race in anything but doggy. This discussion is going nowhere and I have better things to do than add to it.
 

But Bill, a bullet blown to the left will also rise above the aiming point while a bullet blown to the right will impact low :)[/QUOTE] THAT ONLY PERTAIN TO THE LIFT OF THE WIND IF IT IS COMING OFF THE GROUND LEVET IF IT IS COMING DOWN ABOVE THE FLAIGS IT IS OPOSITE GOOD LUCK WATCH CLOSER . THANKS FOR POINTING THAT OUT.
 
billbrawand said:
but bill, a bullet blown to the left will also rise above the aiming point while a bullet blown to the right will impact low :)
Click to expand...
that only pertain to the lift of the wind if it is coming off the ground levet if it is coming down above the flaigs it is oposite good luck watch closer . Thanks for pointing that out.[/quote]some times depends what wht part of range you are on.
 
BillBrawand said:
that only pertain to the lift of the wind if it is coming off the ground levet if it is coming down above the flaigs it is oposite good luck watch closer . Thanks for pointing that out.
Click to expand...
some times depends what wht part of range you are on.[/QUOTE]

Actually Bill, it happens on any range at any point on the range. A bullet "blown" to the left will always rise and a bullet "blown" to the right will always fall. It's the same mechanism as "spindrift" although few people ever connect the two, including our current crop of so-called "professional ballisticians" in the world.

LOL, lotta' "quotes" in there cuz a lotta' disagreement on the verbiage...... kinda' like my use of "catch a balloon" to illustrate a point. Words just tend to set certain folks' teeth on edge.

Rush said "words mean things"

50% of the population says "words are mean things"

Here's a diagram to illustrate the wind-rise effect

windvector-full.jpg

LOL, this guy calls it "vector wind effect"...... which clearly illustrates that even though he SEES it, he has no idea from whence it comes, what drives it nor how it works........ :)
 
the wind drift lift thing...... here's another chart often used in Bench Rest circles. Which I completely disagree with, it's as warped as the first one I posted... the headwind/tailwind illustrations are clearly not reasonable, obviously extrapolated in innernet shooters' wet dreams VS supported by physics and real-world data.

((((think, people.... THINK!! Unsupported opinions and guesses have far too much sway in this world.... THINK about a "10mph headwind blowing the bullet down on the target" and then think about your ES..... if you shoot a median velocity of 3200 but your loading techniques yield velocities ranging from 3190 to 3210 for 20fps ES then in your group is effectively a 10mph headwind and a 10mph tailwind...... and the number of people who can load to under 20fps ES is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the reloaders on thee earth))))

wind chart.jpg

And here's a third one which, while I STILL don't find it accurate it's better than the others :) it makes it too freakin' easy, but it at least understands that head and tailwinds ain't in it! This alone is enormously informative.

wind landy.jpg

3 charts, all having adherents yet all three showing radically different wind effects. I happen to have experienced and documented a different thing, similar to chart #3 but not a planar line. This is where Gene Beggs' info/data/experimentation with wind probes and the cumulative effect of wind vector on a 3-D object is useful.
 
don't let the door hit'cha

Speak of a door hit’ cha

Copied from Accurate Shooter

In the past few days I have banned two long-standing members, savagedasher and alinwa. The first was banned for publishing dangerous load suggestions. Alinwa posted claims that a 6mmBR could safely match or exceed velocities of a .243 AI which is patently false. Alinwa also posted extremely hostile, off-color insults directed toward other Forum members and the site administrators. This won't be tolerated.

Members who break the rules or post dangerous information will be banned quickly and permanently. There will be no hand-holding or discussion.

Often the worst-offending members have big egos and they think the Forum should bend the rules to tolerate them. The reality is that, with 43,700+ members, we don't need ANY particular member. Break the rules, and you're history. Simple as that.
 
FBecigneul said:
don't let the door hit'cha

Speak of a door hit’ cha

Copied from Accurate Shooter

In the past few days I have banned two long-standing members, savagedasher and alinwa. The first was banned for publishing dangerous load suggestions. Alinwa posted claims that a 6mmBR could safely match or exceed velocities of a .243 AI which is patently false. Alinwa also posted extremely hostile, off-color insults directed toward other Forum members and the site administrators. This won't be tolerated.

Members who break the rules or post dangerous information will be banned quickly and permanently. There will be no hand-holding or discussion.

Often the worst-offending members have big egos and they think the Forum should bend the rules to tolerate them. The reality is that, with 43,700+ members, we don't need ANY particular member. Break the rules, and you're history. Simple as that.
Click to expand...

;) Yup..... ol AnilWa is one extremely hostile and off-color guy as he well knows Sir FBecigneul.

And the INSULTS!! Injurious?? Incomprehensible?? INconTHIEVable!!......Him are one Inglorious Basterd

Thanks for reminding the other forum members to tread lightly LOL

Keep The Dream Alive
 
BTW I'm still reeling from being described as "a long-standing member" :)

I'd been asked for YEARS to join that forum. I'd received phone calls at my home from Him Who Shall Not Be Named, I'd explained here on BRC as well as telling other well-meaning callers/posters that me'self and 6MMBR.Com just weren't a good fit, that I'd be lucky to last 6mo before being banned....dunno if I DID even last 6mo

But ennyways...... thank you FBecigneul for keeping the scab open, must have a hotbutton on your desktop :)

Some folks likes hamhocks
Dr Hook
 
So.... it seems this thought problem has names..... and a rich history (Which iggerant young me only recently brushed against!)

DWFTTW

And the Brits have their take too..... sincerely stiff upper lip and all that..... to answer that YES!!! given a planet shaped like a soupcon the boat CAN catch the balloon!

silly bints

oops!


linkie-pooh

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/faster
 
[QUOTE WHEN YOU GET TO THE RANGE YOU BETTER LOOK CLOSER.=alinwa;846243]the wind drift lift thing...... here's another chart often used in Bench Rest circles. Which I completely disagree with, it's as warped as the first one I posted... the headwind/tailwind illustrations are clearly not reasonable, obviously extrapolated in innernet shooters' wet dreams VS supported by physics and real-world data.

((((think, people.... THINK!! Unsupported opinions and guesses have far too much sway in this world.... THINK about a "10mph headwind blowing the bullet down on the target" and then think about your ES..... if you shoot a median velocity of 3200 but your loading techniques yield velocities ranging from 3190 to 3210 for 20fps ES then in your group is effectively a 10mph headwind and a 10mph tailwind...... and the number of people who can load to under 20fps ES is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the reloaders on thee earth))))

View attachment 24849

And here's a third one which, while I STILL don't find it accurate it's better than the others :) it makes it too freakin' easy, but it at least understands that head and tailwinds ain't in it! This alone is enormously informative.

View attachment 24850

3 charts, all having adherents yet all three showing radically different wind effects. I happen to have experienced and documented a different thing, similar to chart #3 but not a planar line. This is where Gene Beggs' info/data/experimentation with wind probes and the cumulative effect of wind vector on a 3-D object is useful.[/QUOTE]
 
Hey Bill, I don't disagree with that one bit! Ranges with walls. Ranges with berms. Ranges with breaks in the trees or even one where we shoot over a draw..... or my own reloading room. When the wind is from the west it baffles around the building and makes a swirly-whirly that's basically unreadable. Got flag tails standing straight up!
 
FBecigneul said:
Copied from Accurate Shooter

In the past few days I have banned two long-standing members, savagedasher and alinwa. The first was banned for publishing dangerous load suggestions. Alinwa posted claims that a 6mmBR could safely match or exceed velocities of a .243 AI which is patently false. Alinwa also posted extremely hostile, off-color insults directed toward other Forum members and the site administrators. This won't be tolerated.

Members who break the rules or post dangerous information will be banned quickly and permanently. There will be no hand-holding or discussion.

Often the worst-offending members have big egos and they think the Forum should bend the rules to tolerate them. The reality is that, with 43,700+ members, we don't need ANY particular member. Break the rules, and you're history. Simple as that.
Click to expand...

Francis, not to be out-done by alinwa, I got kicked off AS also. As the boss over there says, they don't need me.
 
alinwa said:
hey bill, i don't disagree with that one bit! Ranges with walls. Ranges with berms. Ranges with breaks in the trees or even one where we shoot over a draw..... Or my own reloading room. When the wind is from the west it baffles around the building and makes a swirly-whirly that's basically unreadable. Got flag tails standing straight up!
Click to expand...
also rem the lay of the terrain
 
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