Am I wrong ?

I was informed that the barrel must be marked, by law, but no mention was ever made of initials or name... just of chambering. To me this makes perfect sense. As I understand it the barrel MUST be indelibly etched with a description of the cartridge to be used in it.

I have had the customers name engraved on the barrel also.

al
 
Everything that I found online at the BATF web site says that the action must be marked with the manufacturers name, town and state, serial number. The barrel has to be marked with the chambering of the barrel. I didn't find any mention that the gunsmiths name is supposed to be marked on the barrel. But, just because i couldn't find it doesnt mean it's not supposed to be there. I think I'll e-mail the BATF agent in my area and see if he knows what is supposed to be marked on the barrel and where the regulation for it is located.
 
I've seen many factory ar style guns with no caliber markings on the barrel, only the receiver, which of course can be changed by pulling two pins. Also, I've seen several lowers marked "multi" in respect to caliber.
 
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Vern, I got busy working in the shop and forgot to e-mail him. Still have his e-mail address from when I changed my FFL over to a LLC.
 
Vern, he told me to look at 27 CFR 478.92 on page 51 of the firearms regs book, ATF P 5300.4. That's dealing with manufacturers marking firearms, but not with what a gunsmith needs to mark when he's replacing a barrel. The manufacturer has to mark the serial number, name of his business, city and state on the receiver. The caliber or gauge also has to be marked which most generally is on the barrel. It looks like all that would be necessary to mark on the barrel would be caliber or gauge, but who knows when dealing with the BATF. I wrote him back asking more specifically about it, but haven't heard anything back from him yet.
 
If the stick doesn't bend, it breaks. Goodby stick. If the stick bends "it sticks with it".
 
I just got off the phone with a BATF agent with the firearms regulation department. He said there was no need for a gunsmith to mark the barrel with his name when he replaces the barrel. He said the serial number has to be on the receiver. But that any other markings could be on either the receiver or barrel. The manufacturer is required to put his business name, city and state, serial number and cartridge designation. A gunsmith who replaces the barrel, just needs to put the cartridge designation that the barrel is chambered and more than likely the best place to put that is on the barrel as it's frequently replaced.
 
Now begins the discussion of "what's a gunsmithing task and what is considered (by ATFE) a manufacturing task"!
 
dialin' in said:
Now begins the discussion of "what's a gunsmithing task and what is considered (by ATFE) a manufacturing task"!
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I can answer that question extensively as I've logged several hours worth of phone calls with the firearms tech branch and the legal branch of the ATF. I also have several of the phone conversations in writing.

You should see the look on an ATF agents face when you tell them they don't know what they are talking about in reference to their job! I recently had an annual inspection and my agent made me call firearms tech on the phone while he was here. The firearms tech guy was wrong as well and I instructed him where to go look to find the correct answer. He called me back 10 minutes later and said I was correct. Just 3 weeks ago my field agent called me and asked me to further my case with the legal department so the entire ATF could get written briefs on the correct procedures. I told him I'd already been down that road and it's in plain english on the ATF website under rulings. I'm the party responsible for the October 2010 ruling regarding gunsmithing vs manufacturing.
 
That's why the barrel makers, who'll install one of their barrels on a customer supplied action, plainly state "we do not sell or provide actions". They don't want to 'fool' with the added paper work and the possibility of 11% excise taxes (if 50+ manufactured firearms are produced). I've never posted much on any forum, but, I've watched several of these discussions about "who's a manufacture and who's not" and "marking requirements" degrade into......... Figured this one would, too,,,, complete with lots of irrelevant examples! Kudos to Mike for posting the link for others to take a look at for themselves.
 
It doesn't matter where the action comes from, as long as their is a customer order/contract it is NOT defined as manufacturing. There is NO excise tax and no manufacturing numbers on the report. Did you not read the part about the records you need to keep to facilitate an ATF inspection? I just finished my annual inspection and my field agent is now more educated on manufacturing vs gunsmithing than when he arrived. I printed out the October ruling and he read it but still had trouble believing it. He had me call firearms tech and I put it on speaker phone. Needless to say I build well over 50 guns a year and I supply almost every frame or receiver and my manufacturing report every year is "0".
 
Superman said:
It doesn't matter where the action comes from, as long as their is a customer order/contract it is NOT defined as manufacturing. There is NO excise tax and no manufacturing numbers on the report. Did you not read the part about the records you need to keep to facilitate an ATF inspection? I just finished my annual inspection and my field agent is now more educated on manufacturing vs gunsmithing than when he arrived. I printed out the October ruling and he read it but still had trouble believing it. He had me call firearms tech and I put it on speaker phone. Needless to say I build well over 50 guns a year and I supply almost every frame or receiver and my manufacturing report every year is "0".
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THANK YOU Superman!!!

I've read all these posts for 5yrs...... I've got an 07 FFL........ I've had this "argument" with agents and folks from nearly every state in the Union.......... AN ACTION CAN ONLY BE "MANUFACTURED" ONCE!

All else is semantics


IMO


(and you've reinforced my opinion)

al
 
Al, if you make a speculative rifle, for general sale or distribution, you have then manufactured a new firearm. If you build a gun based on a customer order, you're only gunsmithing, and it doesn't matter where the parts come from.

If you have a retail store front and you sell AR-15 rifles, there is another scenario to be cautious of.
1. You purchase Rock River uppers and DPMS lowers. If you assemble the 2 halves and put them out for sale you have manufactured a firearm. (stupid, I know)
2. If you have uppers and lowers for sale in your store and a customer purchases 1 of each and asks you to then put them together, you have only performed a gunsmithing task and it is NOT manufacturing.
3. If you build a pistol or rifle and put them on the shelf for sale, you have engaged in manufacturing and need an 07 license.
4. If you only build according to customer order and you maintain copies of the order documents to facilitate and ATF inspection, you are a gunsmith and only need an 01 license.

In the above examples, they are way different than they were prior to Oct 2010.
 
Superman said:
Al, if you make a speculative rifle, for general sale or distribution, you have then manufactured a new firearm. If you build a gun based on a customer order, you're only gunsmithing, and it doesn't matter where the parts come from.

If you have a retail store front and you sell AR-15 rifles, there is another scenario to be cautious of.
1. You purchase Rock River uppers and DPMS lowers. If you assemble the 2 halves and put them out for sale you have manufactured a firearm. (stupid, I know)
2. If you have uppers and lowers for sale in your store and a customer purchases 1 of each and asks you to then put them together, you have only performed a gunsmithing task and it is NOT manufacturing.
3. If you build a pistol or rifle and put them on the shelf for sale, you have engaged in manufacturing and need an 07 license.
4. If you only build according to customer order and you maintain copies of the order documents to facilitate and ATF inspection, you are a gunsmith and only need an 01 license.

In the above examples, they are way different than they were prior to Oct 2010.
Click to expand...

This is correct.
Al
 
Yes! I did read about what I need to keep to facilitate an inspection! Did you follow through with TTB and the FAET? www.ttb.gov under the heading "Firearms and Ammunition" click on "Manufactures" to the right, under "Quick Links" click on"FAET FAQs" that'll take you to "Firearms Excise Tax FAQs" about 3/4 of the way down that page it says "TAXES and below that Liability go on down to #5 the first 'link' you come to is 27CFR53.61(b)(5)(ii) click on it you've been directed to the "Eletronic Code of Federal Regulations" where "Electronic Code of Federal Regulations" is underlined (to the right of where it says 'home') click on that now use the arrow at 'browse' and go to Title 27 and click on "GO" Browse Parts "40-399" click on 53 and on the following page go on down to "53.61" and click on that go on down to (b) and read (1) then go on down to (5)Examples (i) and then to (ii) It's there,,, plain as day. Yes, I do make mistakes, I'm human! I made on the other day and found out for sure I had after calling TECH. The "Frame or receiver, breeching machanism, ect. is not taxed,,,,,,,,,,, until you screw a barrel on it! Hence, why barrel maker XYZ "doesn' t sell of provide receivers!
 
dialin' in said:
Yes! I did read about what I need to keep to facilitate an inspection! Did you follow through with TTB and the FAET? www.ttb.gov under the heading "Firearms and Ammunition" click on "Manufactures" to the right, under "Quick Links" click on"FAET FAQs" that'll take you to "Firearms Excise Tax FAQs" about 3/4 of the way down that page it says "TAXES and below that Liability go on down to #5 the first 'link' you come to is 27CFR53.61(b)(5)(ii) click on it you've been directed to the "Eletronic Code of Federal Regulations" where "Electronic Code of Federal Regulations" is underlined (to the right of where it says 'home') click on that now use the arrow at 'browse' and go to Title 27 and click on "GO" Browse Parts "40-399" click on 53 and on the following page go on down to "53.61" and click on that go on down to (b) and read (1) then go on down to (5)Examples (i) and then to (ii) It's there,,, plain as day. Yes, I do make mistakes, I'm human! I made on the other day and found out for sure I had after calling TECH. The "Frame or receiver, breeching machanism, ect. is not taxed,,,,,,,,,,, until you screw a barrel on it! Hence, why barrel maker XYZ "doesn' t sell of provide receivers!
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Sir, you ONLY are FET compliant with a tax when you are the MANUFACTURER. That is what we are trying to determine here, the difference between manufacturing and gunsmithing. Gunsmiths do NOT have to pay an FET, only the manufacturer. TTB only determines tax compliance, the ATF determines definition. In this case, if a customer calls you up and orders a firearm to be built out of parts, you are gunsmithing. If you build a firearm for sale or distribution you are manufacturing. If you manufacture more than 50 firearms in a year you are subject to a Federal Excise Tax on the total number of firearms. The link you provide discusses how much of that firearm is taxable in a manufacturing setting.
 
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