Action Question

Vern

Vern

Morethan1waytoskinacat
I am finally ready to start back to benchrest.
I thought I was a couple of years ago but it didnt happen.
No in getting ready to build a gun I have to choose an action.

Years ago when BR was getting started the goal was strong shot action.
Thus they sleeved the Remington action.
We have had many innovations and instead of a tight small action with small holes trying to make it stiffer we have actions with openings everywhere.
Left port right eject, the drop port and others.
How is it these actions are better or stiffer when we have all of the extra openings in them.

I look at the equipment list and it seems that Bat was on 96% of the winners guns. While I know some of this can be more like a fad or follow the leader cant argue with what works.

That being said is it due more to the barrels bullets powder and other components that we use now more than just the action?

Wonder how some of the greats would shoot with a trued up xp-100 action?

Any help would be appreciated.
 
Dated Thread

First Vern when did you shoot BR. If your talking sleeved XP 100 actions sounds like mid 70's. I started in 1975 with a sleeved XP 100. Nothing wrong with a Remington action for BR, still some that use them. I have a sleeved 600 on my HV and the same on my Rail. Your question of how would the greats do with a sleeved XP 100 action, that is a good question. I would say they would win like they have in the past using any BR action including a BR prepared Remington action. Don Geraci won several super shoots with a Remington 700 action. Nothing wrong with a balanced and blueprinted Remington action for use in a BR gun.

Curious where did you get your 96% number on shooters using Bat actions on winning guns. I would say that Kelbly/Stolle, Stiller, Hall, Neiska, Remington actions take their share of winning aggs.

Vern getting back to your question about what would be a good action for you to build a gun on I would say any of the Customs would do just fine. I would be happy with any of todays BR actions.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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Stephen long time no hear ... but the again I have not been on in a long time at least not posting.
Here is an equipment list from the NBRSA 2009 championships, I think.

You can see what all the top shooters were using.

What I am getting at is that bullets, actions, and other equipment can be seen in trends. Kind of like the pack attitude. Logic can have a small part in that if the majority of the winners are using certain things then they must be good and the mindset can be that it must be better.

I first shot BR back in the early 80's. My first br was a xp100 not sleved on a Mc stock and a Shillen barrel with a with one of the early T-36's.

Thought it might be cheaper to go the Remington route but didnt want a mental handicap about it not being good enough to compete and agg.

The baisc question was about original philosophy being short solid and strong but now we have cuts and ports every where. So how does that compare with the old idea.

Kind of like maybe the real problem early on was not as much the action as the bullets powder, flags and other things combined??
 
To compare a new BAT with a small loading port and a micro ejection port to any Remington is like comparing a Porche to a Volkswagon. The design location and size of the ports leaves much more metal where it matters most. Combine that with the near perfect straightness, very tight bolt clearance and the overall very high quality of the BAT and there is really no comparison at all. Not to overlook all the other excellent Benchrest actions either, they nearly all are much stiffer, tighter, and straighter than Remingtons. The deep bolt nose recess necessary with the factory Remington bolt is considered by many smiths to create a marginal condition with the PPC based cases. Another feature the Remington lacks is a trigger hangar which makes "glue-in" bedding practical.
A trued, sleeved Remington with an aftermarket coned bolt can possibly be made to shoot with the custom actions, but by that time it usually would have been cheaper to buy the custom action and the resale value is ALWAYS higher for a true benchrest action.

Scott Roeder
 
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Vern,
Last summer I made the mistake of trying to make a Remington receiver as good as a custom. I had $900 in it after getting buddy deals and doing some myself. I started with a $200 receiver. The work included reaming the bolt bore, refacing the lug abuttments, installing an external rocker type bolt release, single point threading the barrel threads, and refacing the receiver. I bought a fluted Kiff bolt fitted to the reamed bolt bore, got the one with the .062 firing pin hole, ordered a new firing pin assembly, and a 3 position safety. I sent the bolt and receiver to Dans40x in Fairbanks, Alaska to tig weld and set the bolt timing. I used one of Dan's handles.
DSC02355.jpg

Vern, What we have is a real nice Remington receiver and that is all it is. Resale value is very little more than a stock receiver. Thank long and hard before you use a Remington. It is still a rt.-rt. and not sleeved. You say it doesn't need all the work that was done to it? You might as well use a stock Remington then.
Butch
 
I have a Diamondback drop port that will drop the BR cases also, it has a Terry Leonard redwood stock that has a custom paint job by Kavanaugh, Jewell trigger, 13.5 twist 4groove barrel with one match on it with one of my tuners.
$1950. You can't touch one for that. My Grandson found girls.
Butch
 
Vern how much Money You wanna Spend

As you heard from other posters Remington actions are expensive to make usefull for benchrest. New Custom actions go anywhere from about $900 to $1100. Once you get all the work done on a Remington action to bring to up to BR quality you would be close to the price of a Custom action. If the gun Butch talked about for $1950 is for sale that's about as good a price for a slightly used BR gun as you will find.

Vern I agree with all the shooters that say building a BR gun on a Remington action is almost the same as using a Custom action once you figure the cost of gunsmithing needed to detail out a Remington action. When you get done with a Remington action BR gun the resale value is considerably less than a Custom action gun.

The opinion of most on this Forum is go for the Custom action and don't look back. With all this said I have 5 BR actions. Two sleeved Rem 600's, 1 Rem 40x, I Hall, and 1 Wichita. The Remington's were BR prepped when I bought them.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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Butch
I must admit that your rem 700 action is by far the nicest 700 action i have ever seen. I would be honored to own that action if you ever decide to sell!! Very nice. I do however agree 100% what you say is 100% fact!! Butch has been around for a while and what he says can be taken for truth!! Lee
 
Vern

Haven't heard from you in quite some time. Welcome Back.

As for the actions, it seems we are blessed with a multitude of top notch performers at this time. The Stolle Panda, (Kelbly), has always been a big seller, (and winner), Hall has been around for decades, Farley has a brand new line out, Stiller sells more actions world wide than just about anybody, and Bat, who you see in the winners equipment list quite often

There are a few Gunsmiths who have established sort of a cottage industry "improving" certain brands of Custom Actions, one in particular. For what it is woth, many of the actions you see in the winners equipment lists contain many of these "modifications".

I have a new Rifle that I am going to shoot at the Gulf Coast Region Heavy Varmint Championships tomorrow that is built on a Chrome Moly R-L-Right Eject 2-Lug Bat, the jury is still out, because this will be it's first match. I do like it, it is slick as grease, and after a few adjustments, tosses the cases exactly where I want them.

That being said, I shot my Rail Gun today with the new Stiller Diamond Back Drop Port. It was a dream to shoot, that drop port is really something. It performed great, got a 2d place at the 10 shot 100, including a nice .147 in match three. I am beginning to wish I had built my new Rifle on one of these..........jackie
 
Butch I'd like to extend my condolences to you and your grandson on his discovering girls. Many a good young man has been led to ruin buy such a discovery. :eek: I hope that he doesn't go too far down that road before he comes to his senses.

Girls are fine once a lad is old enough to know the difference between keepers and the rest. Took me a LONG while.

That's a VERY pretty Remington action too, but like you say it's still not worth what it cost or anything close to it.
 
Hey Vern

good to hear from ya again. Give us a shout. Maybe we can work something out for ya.

stiller
 
Vern

I shoot a right bolt left port drop port Cobra from Stiller and love it. Like others have said it is hard to go wrong with one of many of the custom action makers listed above. At this point it comes down to personal preference(I chose the Cobra for quickness in reloading)
 
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Larry,
We kinda like the present one. She likes the outdoors and fishing. They do spend a little time at our fishing pond. She is a great athlete as is Josh and that keeps each of them busy. Never know what the next one will be like.
Butch
 
Thanks

Thanks for all the input.
Certainly helps make the decision easier.
Glad to see my old friends are still here and doing well.
Ill make it back this time.
 
benchrest actions

Vern, we have a couple of Stiller Viper actions and a Stiller Diamondback up in the Utopia area if you would like a look at them.

Joe
 
Vern

sorry I didnt get back to you. I have a machine tech and a few customers show up right after you called. Give me a shout back on Wednesday.
 
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