action question

82boy

82boy

Patrick Kennedy
Some thing that has had my brain wondering is can a factory action gun be converted to a benchrest gun? Say a remington action timed and trued, with a jewel trigger, a bench rest stock, a good barrel like a heart, and all the rest of the bells and wistles. Could this gun compeate with say a stoll or a bat action bench gun?
 
Patrick

The "Extreme Accuracy" game, (of which Benchrest is just a part), can be compared the High Performance Hot Rod game. Remember back in the '60s through the '80's when we had very few choices in high performance aftermarket equipment. Most Hot Rodders were left with modifying OEM cylinder heads, cranks,rods, etc in order to ring out every drop of performance. Now,all you have to do is pick up a JEGS catalogue to see that now, due to modern manufacturing techniques, there is such a wide selection of performance parts that modifying a OEM item is just about insane. Sure,that old set of Fuelie heads from that 375 HP '66 327 may be worth a fortune to some,but in the real world of performance, they are little more than big chunks of nostaligia.
In Rifles, before the mid '80's, we had about the same situation. The advent of CAD-CAM machining and innovative business persons has brought us a wealth of custom actions that are "right" right out of the box. The fact is, you can make a mass produced Factory Action perform pretty close to a true custom, if you are willing tospend the time and money. But it goes without saying that it will never equal the custom in overall performance, (which involves more than just the ability to shoot small groups), in the Competitive Arena...........jackie
 
I once had a ---

Trued up XP100 in a 3''br stock that shot some tiny groups in good conditions. Trouble was---It was RB-RP non eject and I could'nt get off more than 2-3 shots before the flags switched. With the RB-LP custom actions I can shoot much faster and agg better.
 
Thanks for the responces, the reason I ask is I have read a couple of books, and some other sources, and it seams like there is contradictions, some say it can be done, but deals with resale value, and some say it can not be done at all.

The other reason is the gunsmith that has done work on my gun said that it can be done, and he has placed and won with one at many 1000 yard turnaments. A second person I know that compeates in the 1000 yard area, does well with a mauser built gun, and has other factory based rifles.

Is there a big diference in 600 and 1000 yard benchrest over the 1,2,3 hundred yard shoots? I was wondering if there equipment was diferent for a diferent reason.

The main reason I asked is I wanted a non biased decision. What I already have is a Savage action that has been timed and trued, a douglass XX barrel in 22br, and all the bells and whistles. The gun shoots very well, I have shot some groups in the .2 area at local matchs, without wind flags. (they was there I just did not know what to do with them) I am tring to improve I have only shot 1 year and never a registered match. I have been reading, and asking questions so I can improve. The reason I asked about a rem is most people say "not a junk Savage", and I wanted to eliminate that responce, I know a Savage is as capible as a rem.

At the present time I can not afford to buy a dedicated bench gun, but wondering if I was wasting my time with this gun, because the only thing I want to change is the stock, and I could get a nice benchrest stock for $200.00, wich at the time (and maybe for a long time) Is all I can aford. I just built my first set of wind flags, and now I am tring to figgure out what to do for stands.

I plan on attending a benchrest school this summer, and will hopefully use a loaner gun there. But I was wondering if it would be a good idea for me to get a new stock for the gun I have.
 
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action question.

If your gunsmith can do the work for about $150 go for it.
The learning curve on wind doping and loading takes a while.
Long range. you will be working in a few different weight class's.
shot range 10.5 lbs and 13.5 lbs.
sporter i believe is still a different weight. Opt for the 10.5 and shoot several class's
 
82boy said:
can a factory action gun be converted to a benchrest gun? ............. Could this gun compeate with say a stoll or a bat action bench gun?
Click to expand...

Yes it can be done. the average blue printed Remington can at least compete with the custom actions, but unless its in the hands of a very good shooter its not likely to beat the top guys with the custom actons. It may every now and then but not on a regular basis. And as stated many times here its going to end up costing you as much as a custom and have far less resale value.

Additionally i have seen a few Remingtons in the winners circle at big matches, I have yet to see a Savage there I am not saying it will not happen I am simply saying I have not seen it yet.
 
Gerry said:
If your gunsmith can do the work for about $150 go for it.
The learning curve on wind doping and loading takes a while.
Long range. you will be working in a few different weight class's.
shot range 10.5 lbs and 13.5 lbs.
sporter i believe is still a different weight. Opt for the 10.5 and shoot several class's
Click to expand...


All the gunsmith work has been done. He charged me $105.00 to time and true the action. This also included truing the bolt face, the barrel surface, and straitning the action, and a few other tricks, the gun is silky smooth.

Using my bathrood scale the gun weighs in a between 8 and 9 lbs, compleate with scope.

My question is should I do the last thing this gun needs and that is a new stock, I am still using a factory laminate stock, bedded to the action, it is much narrower that a bench rest stock, and it fits my rest I have to watch cant with it. also when it recoils it follows the conture of the stock raising the muzzel as it recoils.

Should I change the gun, is it a wast of time or sit out untill I can afford a bench gun. ( maybe a few years)
 
Patrick,
You ask questions and then tell us what you are going to do. It doesn't sound like you listened to anybody here on the forum. The 22 BR will not be competitive. Go out this year and learn and come back next year and tell us what you learned.
Butch
 
I went down this road and it is hardly worth it. You are saying you can't afford a bench gun and yet you are going to spend more on a gun that will not likely be competitive and will probably be hard to sell. From experience I will tell you that you are money ahead to buy a used BR gun and buy for it. You will be farther ahead financially. A factory action can do fairly well and be competitive but it is like running with your boots on, a handicap that few top shooters would look forward to. The decision is yours, good luck, and whatever you do remember to have fun.
 
Patrick,
I went down the same exact road you are thinking about, even including the BR 3" stock. But I did it in 6BR. .262 neck and all. Yes it does shoot good, but not BR good. All that is left of the Savage is the action. I would estimate that I have about $1200 in it at this point. After working with it for about a year or more I had it shooting in the .3's and a few times in the 2's. Then one day while attending a match as a visitor and not shooting I bought a used Viper with a new Kreiger barrel on it, chambered for 6PPC. I paid $1800 and it came with a set of Jewell rings. You just cannot believe the difference. Not that the action was so smooth, in fact I had worked that Savage action over so much that it is actually smoother that the Viper. Lots of people have tried what you are wanting to do and finally gave up. I would guess that I might get $500-600 for the Savage. The Viper actioned rifle is still worth $1300-1500. Just do the math and listen to what these fine people have been telling you. Why try to reinvent the wheel.....Donald
 
action question.

$105 is a great price.
Your a bit light for benchrest. I don't know how heavy your barrels is.
some people go for A weight system in the but of their stock.
You will need a lot of practice to shoot well in the learning curve.
go for it. You can always make a super hunting rifle out of it later.
when your ready you can buy a used BR rifle at some point and have a new barrel put on and improve even more, I have a trued 700 hunting rifle with a 308 hart barrel , You would be surprised at how much they charge to build one. and your half way there. You can't loose
 
Big Savage fan here but.......
No your gun will never take the Nationals;)

Best advice I can give. Save some money. Buy an EJS forend stabilizer from Midway for your Savage stock. Shoot that gun. Learn to read flags and learn to tune. When that barrel is shot out its time to make the jump or be happy with what you got.
 
I'm trying to learn something here too. If the components on the two actions are same, that is barrel, trigger, stock, and scope, and both are bedded same, lets say both are glued in, what would be difference? It would seem since both actions are equally rigid, and both support and align case the same with same headspace, what would be the difference that makes one more accurate than the other? I know that one action might allow the shooter to shoot faster - is this the only difference?
 
Remember he is talking about a Savage. It is not as rigid as a custom. I don't believe that anybody makes a 2oz. trigger for it. The bolt will not be as tight as a custom.
Butch
 
Patrick

Even though I answered before, I will add something.
What you have logged on to is Benchrest.com. We give shooters the straight scoop on what is competitive in the real world of Competitive Shooting.
We do not give answers based on nostalgia, likes or dis-likes, what looks good, or what might have worked 20 years ago. We give answers based on what is going on now, and what works.
If you want to shoot Benchrest, the kind of Benchrest that this Forum represents, then build, or aquire, an honest to goodness Benchrest Rifle. Anything less, and you are just selling yourself short.
As for your "Gunsmith", in our world, you don't get much for $150. He is giving you bad advice when it comes to 100-200 yard Benchrest.
But then, you logged on here to get the straight scoop from those that really know, but it seems the die has already been cast, and your mind was made up before you ever asked.
Use what you have now to learn, save your money, and step up when you feel the time is right
Good Luck.........jackie
 
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paceil

I'll take a stab at this even though I do not own a custom action. I'm still playing with my Savages. You stated two obvious reasons yourself.

1 Rigidity. Factory actions are not as rigid as custom actions. If my schooling is correct these fine BR people are pushing 70,000 psi to get in the top node where the 6ppc shoots best. Now I'm probably guilty of pushing a Savage action or two that high on occasion but I shoot at home. I wouldn't attempt a load like that with other shooters on either side of me.

2 Support. These custom actions are machined to the thousandths. My Savage actions are built with a yardstick by comparison. Savages floating bolt head supposedly helps make up for some of this slop but definitely not all.

Feels like a pop quiz. Lets see if the teachers burn me alive.

Wow Butch and Jackie are fast typers too
 
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Hey Nader if it's done right he can shoot a small group"
Want to see Rich's 30br shoot groups It's a hart bbl
2oz set up canjar trigger 2 1/4 stock Trued 600 short with a loading block
glued in.
Guys you forget first you shoot a small group or two then the bug hits and your hooked. He will get there. Just a matter of time.
We need new bees . Last time i looked in the mirror i saw a old guy' hang in there Do it your way"''' 6ppc is the way to go.
 
Gerry,
You know I love ya, I'm just trying to save another poor toad like me a few bucks,See you at camillus in the morning.
joel
 
Butch Lambert said:
Remember he is talking about a Savage. It is not as rigid as a custom. I don't believe that anybody makes a 2oz. trigger for it. The bolt will not be as tight as a custom.
Butch
Click to expand...

Yes there are 2oz triggers for Savage, I have one.
 
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