A short 30BR, real short

J

jo191145

Guest
OK folks. Two years ago I ordered a 30 BR barrel from a decent barrel maker with good reputation in the normal configuration, 17 twist, Robinette reamer.
It was a prefit job for a Savage action. You can laugh all you want its OK.
For two years I tried every darn thing I could think of to get it to shoot. It would'nt, not even close. I'm not crying. Life happens.

Anyhow just recently I saw a weirdo configured barrel milled for a Sav action for super dirt cheap dollars.
16" with a 10 twist, muzzle break and standard Robinette Reamer. Weird. Not IBS legal either
For $85.00 it was mine.
First group out of the barrel was .194 at 33.0gns with HBN 115 Bergers. Fouling/Starting charge with an arbitrary 10 thou into the lands.
Now I know for sure it was'nt me in the wrong these last two years.
The question?
Very hard to get into the 2950+ realm with H-4198 and a 16" barrel tho I did do it tonight in an Audette. Understand maybe I don't need to either but.
Besides RL-7 is there another powder (faster) out there that may get me there without squirrely pressures?
I quess i'm looking for the fastest burn rate a 30BR can handle to get in the accepted normal first node.
Actually toying with the idea of AA-1680. Should I assume I'd be the first to try a fast ball powder in the 30?

Or theoretically would it even matter? It takes 35.3gns (2966) - 35.5gns (2985) of Hodgens to get in the zone. I consider that darn hot not to mention a PITA compressed load.
I had no obvious pressure signs for those two shots but........ Its quite a bit higher than normal and normals pretty high already.
Would the pressures be relatively the same irregardless of burn rate?
 
An easy one to get to try would be AA 1680. Also Exterminator. Re-7 isn't very much faster than H-4198 in practice. Why do you care how fast it goes as long as you can shoot tiny holes with it?
 
You might get better velocity if you shoot naked bullets vice coated.
 
Hi Pete I've been eying that 1680 for awhile now. Even with my last barrel tho I had no problems acheiving velocity. Just looking for that miracle.
X-Terminator is too slow. Don't think I did'nt try that in my first barrel. 135smk's and X-term stuffed might work.
Need to get the pressure up there or it will not completely burn. FWIW hot primers, Rem 7.5, CCI-450 made matters worse.
Mild worked better. (Wolf Magnum) Looked like it might be an accurate combo but impossible to tell. A touch more case volume would help greatly.
6PPC and 6BR (lite) use that powder.

Your right, I don't care how fast its going really. If I get luv at 2780 I'll take it.
Nothing to judge by but looking at the first group at 100 and the Audette ladder at 200 I get the inkling its gonna start losing accuracy at range.
While the 200yd test was only 1.2" in vertical only the last two shots were touching. I was elated nonetheless. "That other" barrel never shot anything like that.
A little tweaking of the seating depth may just prove my inkling incorrect.
Even my crappy barrel told me those nodes of lore were actually there, just in larger moa's than I'd prefer to shoot at a match without a mask.

Or perhaps that 10 twist is imparting enough spin to show the minor discrepency in bullets at 200. Above my pay grade I'm afraid.
Reality is I'm just about out of 115 Bergs and waiting for customs is a long process.
If I'm gonna order Bergers I figured I'd pick some brains about possible powder choices to go with the order.

Mr Grosbier, is N-130 faster than H-4198 in the 30? I know from my own trials and errors errors errors that N-133 is quite a bit slower.
I have some R-7 and I might try that next. My next fastest powder on hand would be SR-4759 and Yessiree I even tried that in my first tube.
Squirrely and dirty is the best I could describe that expieriment. Data is in the trash presumably so I'll not go there again.

Mr Jennings, you may be absolutely right.
Oddly enough though there is a contigent of HBN users that claim to actually get higher velocitys with less powder using HBN.
If you read the patent on HBN as a bullet coating it indeed makes that claim but as memory serves it did not specifically state charge weight in that claim.
A little vague as I recall. Supposedly HBN creates a ceramic layer that seals the bore disallowing gases to escape around the bullet. Or some such stuff.
Definately above my pay grade. Never ran a side by side test. Never cared.
I know it works wonders in a couple of my gun/powder/bullet combos and not so well or needed in others.
My last box of Bergs was already coated, no choice. I was expecting 1 moa - 4 moa. Historical precedent.
Seems I have a very good reason to run some velocity comparison tests of my own now.

Thanks for your thoughts folks. Much appreciated.
If anyone knows someone, who knows someone, whos cousins freinds freind once shot 1680 in a 30 BR I'd like to hear about it.
Might order a couple boxes of 110 Bergs too. Never heard of anyone using them either which fits in just fine with my pshyche.

Another good question for everyone.
If I were shooting on the Bench next to you with 35.5gns of H-4198 and 115 Bergs what would your initial thought be?
 
"If I were shooting on the Bench next to you with 35.5gns of H-4198 and 115 Bergs what would your initial thought be? "
How would one know thats what you were shooting? I shoot 35.5gr of 4198 with berger 115gr bullets quite often. Pretty accurate stuff i might add. Good luck with your quest. I love these types of challenges! Lee
 
I quess i'm looking for the fastest burn rate a 30BR can handle to get in the accepted normal first node.
Actually toying with the idea of AA-1680. Should I assume I'd be the first to try a fast ball powder in the 30?


I use AA1680 in a 30 PPC. It is very stable and very controllable. That said, be careful in the 30BR. It is about 10% more capacity and that is a LOT when it comes to fast powder.

David
 
Skeet, Thanks Skeet. Its nice to know I'm not the first to venture in the stratosphere. Love? Nope, I live for these challenges. Why else begin a build on a Savage action?
My equipment/load lists never read like the who's who. Could explain my dismall showings but I have other excuses.:D
I have no complaints with H-4198 in the 30, even with barrel #1. I can say its not often anything from the Hodgen Extreme line works for me but on occassion it does.
Even tho I tried every powder in my discpencery I really knew that was'nt the issue.

David, Now thats what I was looking for. And not even a friend of a cousins freind but THE David Halblom himself.
Rest assured as an only slightly deranged individual who happens to use X-Term in a 6PPC I have the ability to leave that extra volumne alone when lightening strikes.
Its nice not having to dispence your load down a spiral straw from the second floor balcony while your loved one taps John Bonham solos on the floor below.
Thank you sir.
Just gotta ask tho. What velocitys and chargeweights are you using in your 30PPC? What bullet? What, if any ,volumne do you have left?
Seriously considering a 30PPC as I can't afford a new rifle and no matter what this oddball (barrel that is) brings to fruition its still not IBS legal.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I've shot a boatload of N120 in a 30 Major(Grendel case). Capacity is right between a 30PPC and 30BR. Only complaint is price...otherwise it's a great powder, and is a bit faster than 4198. In my case, it works perfectly...couldn't ask for better. I've not tried it in a 30BR but have suspected it worth trying, for some time.--Mike E.
 
Check out the new AA2200. I have had great luck with it where H4198 was too slow and 1680 was too fast. For example in my 20VT with my 223LC made cases I can hit 4100fps with a 32gr bullet. That AA2200 is some fine metering stuff too. Adam
 
I think you are looking down the wrong road. Unless you have the latest Savage benchrest action, and even then i would be suspect. I am by no means a long time shooter but I tried for about 2 years to make a Savage 110 action with everything else custom shoot in 6BR. OH, it would shoot in the three's a bunch but never saw a .2xx group. Finally gave up and bought a real BR gun. Viper action, Kreiger barrel, glass stock. Amazing how things changed. Course I went from 80 grain bullets to 65-68 in the PPC Viper. Two years ago I was going to the Rattlesnake at Raton. Had my drop port Viper shooting bug holes. Stock was getting pretty ratty so lots of time, I will refinish it. Unglued action and did a nice paint job on it. Glued it back in succcesfully. But I did one thing that I didn't think would have any effect on anything. The trigger gard on this stock almost doesnt have a way to attach it and still remove it to get the trigger out the bottom. So I took a 1/4x28 screw, ground down the center portion and while the glue was setting I screwed the screw in the back hole of the trigger gard. Very lite pressure and this was after the glue was almost set completely. Had to dig clay out of rear action hole to get the screw in. This was just to hold the trigger on, not much else. Well I spent Friday warm up trying to get the gun to shoot. It would put 2 up and 3 down or 3 up and 2 down, about a 1/4 inch apart. So I changed barrels, scopes, talked to ever one I could find, even Speedy, Mike Ratigan and others. Mike even loaned me a March scope and loaded 6 rounds for me to start with on Sat morn. On a sighter target, 2 up and 3 down. Damed rifle was cursed so I shot with my back up rifle which I had not preped cases for. It has a slightly short chamber. Well, long story short I finished last. After I got home I did some real deep thinking about what did I do that was different. The only thing was that rear screw that I put just a bit too much twist on. Figured I would help the bedding by taking a little barrel weight with the rear screw. Well it screwed up everthing. Took that booger out and the gun went back to shooting bug holes. That is when I did my part. That little experiment told me that bedding an action is a lot more important than you might think. That was why my Savage actioned experiment never would shoot better than mid 3's. Anyway I would not ever build a true race gun without glueing the action in with epoxy, Devcon or whatever. Never any more screws. So you might take a look at your action bedding. If it is a solid bottom action glue that sucker down solid. If it has a cut out for a magazine, just forget it, it ain't gonna happen. Hope you find your problem, because unequal tension on the action is what caused mine.

Donald
 
Thanks for the powder choices guys. I'll look into the further and most likely add them to the bill.

Donald
Yours is the prevailing wisdom and I understand that. I also fully endorse that wisdom if someone wants to build a gun to win.
Unfortunately for me I also know thats not fully the case.
Incredible as it may seem I've shot more zeros with a Savage action and factory 204R barrel than my full race PPC has ever produced.
Only from the results of an expieriment I did years ago attempting to bring that 204R back from the dead. Without resorting to the extremes of that expieriment results like that were not possible.
That old burnt out hummer of a factory barrel taught me more about accuracy than my 6PPC.
I also have a 6BR 14 twist on a Sav action. Uses the same powder and bullet as my PPC. Purchased off the web as a third owner.
Took me awhile to figure out why others sold it off. It shoots now.
When I attend egg shoots I shoot the PPC at 200 yds and reserve the BR for 300yds. That extra 100fps difference between the 2 is the only difference I can see.
If that 6BR barrel were IBS legal the PPC would stay home more often.
 
jo191145 said:
Skeet, Thanks Skeet. Its nice to know I'm not the first to venture in the stratosphere. Love? Nope, I live for these challenges. Why else begin a build on a Savage action?
My equipment/load lists never read like the who's who. Could explain my dismall showings but I have other excuses.:D
I have no complaints with H-4198 in the 30, even with barrel #1. I can say its not often anything from the Hodgen Extreme line works for me but on occassion it does.
Even tho I tried every powder in my discpencery I really knew that was'nt the issue.

David, Now thats what I was looking for. And not even a friend of a cousins freind but THE David Halblom himself.
Rest assured as an only slightly deranged individual who happens to use X-Term in a 6PPC I have the ability to leave that extra volumne alone when lightening strikes.
Its nice not having to dispence your load down a spiral straw from the second floor balcony while your loved one taps John Bonham solos on the floor below.
Thank you sir.
Just gotta ask tho. What velocitys and chargeweights are you using in your 30PPC? What bullet? What, if any ,volumne do you have left?
Seriously considering a 30PPC as I can't afford a new rifle and no matter what this oddball (barrel that is) brings to fruition its still not IBS legal.
Click to expand...

Jo, I am shooting 118 BIBS at about 2950-2975. Powder is about 1/2 way up the neck, so this a near 100% density load. All my record books are in the trailer, so I can't give you a weight.

Why is the "oddball" barrel not IBS legal?
 
Thanks David, that perspective helps. I should have quite a bit of extra room left over. Thats fine by me.

IBS legal? Haven't yet checked the length requirements but its a bull contour. As is it should do well in "custom class"

I'm just happy to finally see what everyone else has been raving about. I won't be so apprehensive about buying another barrel now that I know it was'nt some fatal unseen flaw in my procedures.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top