A Barrel That

Wow! This is great!

Haven't paid much attention to the Forum for awhile, but have enjoyed this thread from start to finish. This is the kind of good stuff we used to see more often. Keep asking the good questions Harry, please. More people will join in when they see they aren't going to be criticized for offering an opinion or idea that differs from yours.

Since we're talking about "windy" shooting, I'm going to digress a tiny bit and give a short list of some of the best wind shooters I've ever personally watched succeed in extreme switchy or blasting wind: you (of course), Bob Holbruner, Steve Arnold, Bill Myers, Fred Sears, Herb Smith, Marshall Beam, Wiley and Janet Westfall, Bill Sink, Wilton Burnett and Kirk Gaston. There are many others I've probably missed or haven't had the privilege to observe, but these people stick in my mind because of two things. They all had/have an ability to focus on the conditions and an intensity of attention while shooting that makes them consistent winners when everyone else is flopping around making excuses, including myself. They own and shoot guns made by every good gunsmith, with every good action and barrel. They've shot great scores with every type of decent ammunition. They have done their homework. They have tested hundreds/thousands of lots of ammo and practiced in every miserable condition that exists. They have competed on many ranges.

I am convinced that the gun that shoots the best in the wind is probably the one owned by a person who has spent the most time practicing and doing it. Keep looking for a technical edge, but don't think it's going to ever substitute for the time you spend watching the flags and pulling the trigger.

Now for the blasphemy -- I can't understand the interest in indoor shooting. If there is no condition to read, then what's the point? And if a gun is accurate indoors, but won't do diddly in a breeze, then it seems to me it's usefulness is extremely limited and you might get suckered in and try to use it outdoors anyway and fall on your face.

Just my opinion and I know there are lots of indoor shooters who seem to enjoy it, but I'm thinking I'd rather feel the wind on the back of my neck any day than be indoors, wondering if "chicken ghosts" just took my shot two rings out.

Bill is going to kill me when he sees this, but I just felt the urge! Happy New Year to everyone!

Inez
 
Have you ever thought about the guns that shoot in the wind but do not shoot in the calm (indoors or night matches)? I have seen it and it still surprises me but it is fact. Is it the shooter or the gun? I can tell you this....I think it is more in the mind of the shooter and not the gun but the shooters I'm thinking of might argue. I hope they respond.


Carp
 
Bill Myers said:
Now for the blasphemy -- I can't understand the interest in indoor shooting. If there is no condition to read, then what's the point? And if a gun is accurate indoors, but won't do diddly in a breeze, then it seems to me it's usefulness is extremely limited and you might get suckered in and try to use it outdoors anyway and fall on your face.

Just my opinion and I know there are lots of indoor shooters who seem to enjoy it, but I'm thinking I'd rather feel the wind on the back of my neck any day than be indoors, wondering if "chicken ghosts" just took my shot two rings out.

Bill is going to kill me when he sees this, but I just felt the urge! Happy New Year to everyone!

Inez
Click to expand...

I'm with you on this Inez. I do not like shooting in the indoor ranges. My rifles don't seem to like it either. I do like the the bull sessions, something to occupy a winter week end, and the good food however.
Dave
 
Harry I believe the barrel is a given with other factors playing their part. You see the problem I'm having is You and other Folks here on this forum already know this, and I'm not being sarcastic with that statement. I'm concerned about the new shooter who just bought a new or used rifle and getting into the game and don't know.

Their is yourself and others here reading these replies that just (bottom line) know. If i was to send you a rifle, you in a short amount of time would tell me if that rifle was a shooter or not. (I'm not referring to indoors).

Then their are folks that don't know, and have not experienced the different conditions at other ranges. Wind is wind, but the characteristics that make up a particular range and other factors thrown in make it the challenge. There is no denying that you and others KNOW. and agree with the statement Inez posted about folks that can shoot outdoors.

Harry, i apologize for these questions being off topic, but would like to hear your experience to help someone new if they want it and myself. What do you look for when you are competing at different ranges with a lot of wind?, and or switchy conditions.

Thanks,
Joe
 
harrydeneen said:
You Know That One.. My Opinion Is That The Action Is Not Very Important At All.. As Long As You Have Good Ignition And The Headspace Is Close .. The Barrel Is The Driving Force When It Comes To Wind Deflection... As Wilbur Stated You Can Have Two Rifles Side By Side And One Will Be More Wind Sensitive Than The Other.. When You Have A Good Shooting Rifle That The Wind Does Not Effect As Much Then You Will Have A Gun That Is More Forgiving.. What I Mean By This Is That You Can Get Away With More Mistakes With Less Drift.. Or With A Barrel That Is Not As Forgiving You Will Be Worn Out After Shooting A Target If You Can Keep Your Consentration... A Round Bullet Will Shoot Better Than A Distorted One!! Its Like Glynn Said... :):):) Harry..
Click to expand...

I agree somewhat. I feel in this game we all love, the action is 90% of it and the barrel is the other 90% Oh I forgot about the ammo there is another 90% and reading the wind 90% ammo 90% and the 10% is luck.But even if you have all this right if the gun isnt in tune and I mean the real tuned your just spitting into the wind.The people thats still turning the tuner during the match has never had there gun tuned right or they wouldnt be messing with it then.Harry I know the answer already because we have talked about this before. But how often do you turn your tuner???? Listen up people if Harry offers to answer this question take heed to it because its the simple truth. Jerry
 
Okay, Tim and some others have got it out of their system. I probably don't have no guns and I'm just a wimp that don't shoot in tough man competition like Kent. I'm just a nerd sitting here with a calculator figuring things out that everyone knows can only be done sitting at a bench with a gun that costs at least as much as my automobile.

Patroit, Sure, you're on the right track by trying so set up and learn something by measuring things. This is the only way we are going to learn anything. You would without doubt get something we haven't had up to this point - SOME NUMBERS! However, if you come up with concepts that differ from ideas of some of the people posting here you might consider keeping the results to yourself.

Carp, You present some correct and valid points about interpretations sometimes made by shooters. Unfortunately they are just the things that some shooters posting here don't like to have pointed out to them.

I'll just ask a couple of questions, maybe directed at Harry or Wilbur.
1) Can you tell us; HOW MANY INCHES DIFFERENCE was there in some of the "differences" in wind effect that you noted?
2) When two different shooters sit side by side, how does this "eliminate the shooter from the equation"?
 
Jerry

You Are Right When You Say Al Things Are Important But When I Answered Your Question About Barrel ,or Action I Was Just Refering To Them Two... You Can Put A Great Barrel On About Any Br Action And Set It Up Right And It Will Be Good... But You Cant Put A So So Barrel On Any Br Action And Win...joe.. I Only Post On Here To Help Shooters If I Can... And Newer Shooters Most Of All So They Can Save Money And Not Make As Many Mistakes As I Did In The Learning Process.. But Most Of The Sucess They Have Will Still Come From Trial And Error And We All Have To Go Through That.. Inez Is Right When She Says You Have To Practice Alot.. Dont Worry About Bill Inez.. I Know You Can Still Take Him!.. Jerry .. Remember That Old Factory 40x You Had? Man That Would Shoot In The Wind.. I Remember In Cordelle When You Seen That Big Watermelon Was Going To The Winner And Your Eyes Got Real Big I Knew I Was In Trouble!! Thats When I Knew You Was A Bigger Redneck Than Me...:d... Harry...
 
pacecil, the fact that some of these rednecks don't cypher much don't mean that they are ignorant. They have thought out all the controlable aspects of this game and then experimented with the rest. Knowing the amount of difference won't change the fact that there is a differnce. As for that difference, this last summer when my gun would not shoot and Darrel's would, we played with zero in a switching wind one afternoon until we were sure we had exactly the same zero. We sat on the same bench and shot at adjacent bulls on the same target, I follow him on one shot and he follow me on the next shot. Pull the trigger when you hear the bang. Each aimed at the dot. His bullet moved about an 1/8th in a 10mph wind. Mine moved almost a half.
 
DonMatzeder
How about the ammo, same mfg, same lot ??
Thanks
Fred K
 
Yep, same box and a lot that both guns shot as well as the guns shot.
 
Pacecil,I have been reading some of your post for a while & if i was a new shooter that was trying to gain knowledge & wisdom ,I would have say that you do not offer any real knowledge that a shooter can use to help him or her in their quest to become a good Rimfire Benchrest shooter,I think that you are a Keyboard shooter & this is ok,but whenever some one posts on here with advise on a subject,One should look at the posters track record & see what they have accomplished in the rimfire arena,World Records,Hall of Fame points & such,If there are none,Then bypass this persons comments,because they are just blowing smoke,some of the shooters on this site are very smart & do not pay much attention to un provened claims.I think that you try & analize everything,& thats good,But you need to get out in the trenches & get dirty,Then you will see that all the thinking in the world will not bail your ass out when the wind gets up & a littleLady Like Linda Rogers set down beside you & cleans your clock& gets up Smiling.I will tell you this & Rimfire Barrels have special wind that they favor & it can change in a hours time,What was working this morning will not work this afternoon,I watched Marshall Beam shoot a 250 target In Cordeale Georgia In a 30 mile wind,He used 5 different lots of Eley Ammo to get through that target,He changed as things went away,But in the End,he won the Class,Why ,Because he shot smart,not stupid.I am sure that you will continue to post on this Forum & thats good,But do not get all thin skinned if no one takes your advise,You need to shoot,not type. BILL
 
harrydeneen said:
You Are Right When You Say Al Things Are Important But When I Answered Your Question About Barrel ,or Action I Was Just Refering To Them Two... You Can Put A Great Barrel On About Any Br Action And Set It Up Right And It Will Be Good... But You Cant Put A So So Barrel On Any Br Action And Win...joe.. I Only Post On Here To Help Shooters If I Can... And Newer Shooters Most Of All So They Can Save Money And Not Make As Many Mistakes As I Did In The Learning Process.. But Most Of The Sucess They Have Will Still Come From Trial And Error And We All Have To Go Through That.. Inez Is Right When She Says You Have To Practice Alot.. Dont Worry About Bill Inez.. I Know You Can Still Take Him!.. Jerry .. Remember That Old Factory 40x You Had? Man That Would Shoot In The Wind.. I Remember In Cordelle When You Seen That Big Watermelon Was Going To The Winner And Your Eyes Got Real Big I Knew I Was In Trouble!! Thats When I Knew You Was A Bigger Redneck Than Me...:d... Harry...
Click to expand...

Yeah Harry I remember do you reckon that maybe the old lapua shot better in the wind versus the new eley?? I know the new eley doesnt have the flippers like the old lapua.And we wont go into the redneck stuff we both know who keeps animals in their basement;)
 
I have been sticking to this thread like glue. :D

Harry, you still the man! ;)

I don't know much, but I'm willing to learn like the rest of us here. I think we need more threads like this one.

This has been one of the best.

Brad
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Its Ok Jerry!!

You Know That Iam A Lapua Man But I Shot Eley Down In Sc When I Won Both Events That Weekend And It Does Shoot Good In The Wind When Things Are Right.. You Know What I Am Talking About When I Say That Factory Barrel You Had On That Gun Shot As Good As In The Wind As Any I Have Seen... I Know It Had To Be The Gun :d:d:d.. Brad Hope We Can Learn Something Together! ... Indoor Shooting Is Fun And Gives Us Shooters Farther North Something To Do In The Winter.. Like Dave Said We Can Shoot The Bull Real Good... Don.. I See You Know What Iam Saying About The Diffrence In Drift.. Boy Its Hard To Shoot One That Drifts Alot Farther Than Normal... As I Have Mentioned Earlier When A Barrel Is Lapped And Tapered Right And Tuned To Perfection They Will Shoot Through The Wind Well.... Jerry.. You Know After I Tune My Rifle I Tape It And Leave It Alone.. When You Find That Dead Spot Then It Will Shoot All Your Good Ammo.. This Is What I Have Done Over The Years On All My Guns And Many Lots Of Ammo.... I Did Not Want To Open This Can Of Worms Because Alot Of Shooters Have Diffrent Opinions... And They Might Be Right.... When I Got Dj To Tape His Turbo When It Was Tuned It Was Hard To Beat For Along While Untill The Barrel Started Giving Out... Any Comments Dj? :):):) Harry....
 
Just trying to learn something....

To DonMatzeder, On that day you indicated wind was affecting your gun, roughly what size groups was it/you shooting? What size was the other gun shooting? How many groups or shots did you shoot? Anything there to cause much velocity difference between the guns? Did you say your gun shot tight groups with that ammo except on that day?
 
Both guns would shoot good groups. If I were perfect, I could win with that gun. I'm not. A little mistake with a gun moving an 1/8th is still a 100. A little mistake with a gun moving 1/2 inch is easily a 50 and could be a 25. Darrel's gun would shooter tighter than mine but that wasn't what we were watching that day.
 
harrydeneen said:
Jerry.. You Know After I Tune My Rifle I Tape It And Leave It Alone.. When You Find That Dead Spot Then It Will Shoot All Your Good Ammo.. This Is What I Have Done Over The Years On All My Guns And Many Lots Of Ammo.... I Did Not Want To Open This Can Of Worms Because Alot Of Shooters Have Diffrent Opinions... And They Might Be Right.... When I Got Dj To Tape His Turbo When It Was Tuned It Was Hard To Beat For Along While Untill The Barrel Started Giving Out... Any Comments Dj? :):):) Harry....
Click to expand...

Harry this was my point if all guns was tuned right and left alone we would see alot more higher scores and different winners.How can someone that has never shot there gun when it was tuned be able to figure out if it was the wind or the gun??? That would be like practicing(sp?) with wolf you wouldnt know if it was you or the ammo.I would venture to say 85% of the guns out there are good guns they just need tuned or just need good ammo.But then again what do I know Im just a dumb'ol Redneck:eek: Jerry
Ps. this is a killer thread!!
 
I can agree with you on the tuning. Get it right tape it and leave it. Not only will it shoot better in the wind but it will shoot in the calm then too. Oh Harry by the way my turbo may be better now then it ever was!! DJ
 
I Know

What You Are Saying Jerry So That Is One Of The Reasons That We Have To Help Them Get Started.. Iam Sure Some Shooter Around Where They Shoot Will Try To Help.. At Least This Is What I Have Found Out Over The Years... After A Shooter Gets A Gun Together I Know Someone From Around Them Will Help Them And Shoot The Gun And Give Their Opinion... But Alot Will Count On The Shooters Will And Hard Work.... :):):) Harry...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top