6mmBR or 308?

P

Phil3

Guest
I am looking at trying out F-Class or F/TR, and doing so with a factory Savage rifle. I know the 308 can shoot in either class, but 6mmBR only in F-Class, not F/TR. I figure the 6mmBR would be the performance choice at 600 yards and under for wind and drop, but what about 600 - 1000? 6mmBR or 308? Just as important, which one might be less fussy about finding good loads for it or more forgiving in general? I ask because I am brand new.

Rifle choices are:

Savage F12 in 6mmBR (1:8" twist) F-Class
Savage F12/TR in 308 (1:12" twist) F/TR
Savage Long Range Precision Varminter in 6mmBR (1:8" twist). F-Class

I'd rather not use the 6.5 x 284 due to barrel wear. I am new and need to practice a lot, and avoid replacing barrels frequently.

Thanks.

- Phil
 
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the .308 kicksabunch.....

The 6BR will hit anything a .308 will hit, better.

They're both very forgiving and very accurate rounds but I'll give the overall edge to the 6BR ......at ranges beyond 500yds particularly.

For long-range shooting the .308 is hampered by light low-BC bullets.

And still kicksabunch

al
 
I don't agree that the .308 "kicks a bunch". The .300 Win mag kicks a bunch, and the .338 Win mag kicks too d*mn much, and the .460 Weatherby mag will kick you sick.

I don't think the .308 is hampered by light, low BC bullets unless you choose those. The Palma gang shoots 155 'Palma' bullets, by requirement (generally). For other long range events, you can choose from the excellent Sierra 175 MK, or the Berger VLD options, or the Sierra 190 MK. These are neither light, nor low BC.

But, the .308 certainly kicks more than the 6BR. :cool:

You'll find many more factory ammo options for the .308. You'll find less expensive components, and in more plentiful supply. But, the 6BR is, in my opinion, the better "accuracy" choice.

Jerry Tierney with a .308 would smoke the vast majority of us with our 6BR rigs. Probably using iron sights vs. us using scopes too! So, keep in mind that the shooter is still the most important part of the equation.

However, you'll be able to shoot the .308 in both F classes, and in Palma if you're so inclined.

But the 6BR is superbly accurate, and doesn't kick as much. (I don't find the kick of the .308 unpleasant. I have four or five rifles in this chambering, and have had about twenty .308 rifles over the years... but it does kick more than a 6BR. as a .223 kicks more than a .22 which kicks more than a BB gun.)

I think the good problem is that you can't go wrong with either one.

Read a lot more about the 6BR here: www.6mmBR.com

Cheers
 
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I do recognize the shooter is the big variable in shooting performance, but do want a substantial recoil to upset my ability to pilot the gun. Seems to me, especially for a novice, the less recoil, the better, all else being equal.

The disadvantage to 6mmBR is that I am in the open F-Class, where anything can be used (up to .35), whereas in the F/TR, everyone is at the same disadvantages the 308 has. Unless they are better able to handle the recoil of the 308 than I.

I shot a 308 M1A off a bench, and to me, it hit pretty good...I would not want any more kick than that. I understand the prone position in F-Class tends to make it harder for your body to absorb the kick. That, and shooting heavy bullets may make the recoil notably more than I experienced.

- Phil
 
If you're recoil intolerant, then get the 6BR. (I'm generally intolerant of liberalism and all others espousing that responsibility is someone else's, but quite tolerant of recoil up to a point...) It's what you're comfortable with, and proficient with, that will help you become a better shooter.

However, barrel life on a .308 is significantly longer than a 6BR. Figure five thousand rounds vs. three thousand. That's 2/3 more barrel life, friend.

If you're really recoil intolerant, then get a .223. You can shoot it in FTR and other classes. And Jerry Tierney is posting some impressive data about his pursuits in this regard. Check it out on long-range.com

You'll need to register, but it's a good forum for long-range competitive shooting.
 
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Phil,

Actually I think you have that backwards... with a .308 from the bench, you have relatively little of your body mass behind the gun. It's going to rock you up and backwards more than a proper prone position where you can line up a significant portion of your overall body (upper torso, legs, etc.) straight behind the buttstock. The gun tends to come straight back, and right back on target (that part might take some practice).

Shooting an M1A from a bench is a poor standard to judge F/TR with a .308 by. For starters, I'm betting the stock on the M1A didn't fit you well, and may not have had a recoil pad at all. My Savage 12 F/TR has a 1" thick Limbsaver recoil pad over the factory recoil pad - mostly for the sake of proper LOP. With a Farrell steel scope base, Burris Signature rings, a NF NXS 12-42x scope, Harris bipod with Pod-Loc, Pod-Paws, etc... tips the scales at 8.20kg, or a hair over 18lbs (limit is 8.25kg, or 18.15lbs). Recoil is very manageable, to say the least.

Whether light bullets (155gr), middle or 'cruiser' weight (175-185gr), or heavier (200-210gr) are the way to go is a subject of some debate. I haven't felt particularly outclassed by anybody with heavier bullets - yet. Still, its always worth looking into.

Monte
 
milanuk said:
Phil,

Actually I think you have that backwards... with a .308 from the bench, you have relatively little of your body mass behind the gun. It's going to rock you up and backwards more than a proper prone position where you can line up a significant portion of your overall body (upper torso, legs, etc.) straight behind the buttstock. The gun tends to come straight back, and right back on target (that part might take some practice).

Shooting an M1A from a bench is a poor standard to judge F/TR with a .308 by. For starters, I'm betting the stock on the M1A didn't fit you well, and may not have had a recoil pad at all. My Savage 12 F/TR has a 1" thick Limbsaver recoil pad over the factory recoil pad - mostly for the sake of proper LOP. With a Farrell steel scope base, Burris Signature rings, a NF NXS 12-42x scope, Harris bipod with Pod-Loc, Pod-Paws, etc... tips the scales at 8.20kg, or a hair over 18lbs (limit is 8.25kg, or 18.15lbs). Recoil is very manageable, to say the least.

Whether light bullets (155gr), middle or 'cruiser' weight (175-185gr), or heavier (200-210gr) are the way to go is a subject of some debate. I haven't felt particularly outclassed by anybody with heavier bullets - yet. Still, its always worth looking into.

Monte
Click to expand...

Monte, I felt that prone would not allow my body to move as much under recoil as at the bench, where as you said, my body can move back and up with it. Since I have not shot prone, I will of course defer to your expertise.

The M1A is the only gun I have ever shot of similar power, hence my selection of it as a comparison. I doubt it had a recoil pad, and no, it did not fit me well. I would expect with the kind of weight you are talking about, (notably heavier than M1A), recoil would be quite a bit less, especially with the recoil pad. I am tall, often feel cramped on rifles, so the extra LOP would be welcome.

As an aside, I got to shoot a 65 lb. heavy gun at 1000 yards today. 300 Ackley I think. It had some recoil, but not much with that kind of weight.

- Phil
 
Phil3 said:
Monte, I felt that prone would not allow my body to move as much under recoil as at the bench, where as you said, my body can move back and up with it. Since I have not shot prone, I will of course defer to your expertise.

The M1A is the only gun I have ever shot of similar power, hence my selection of it as a comparison. I doubt it had a recoil pad, and no, it did not fit me well. I would expect with the kind of weight you are talking about, (notably heavier than M1A), recoil would be quite a bit less, especially with the recoil pad. I am tall, often feel cramped on rifles, so the extra LOP would be welcome.

As an aside, I got to shoot a 65 lb. heavy gun at 1000 yards today. 300 Ackley I think. It had some recoil, but not much with that kind of weight.

- Phil
Click to expand...

soooo, how did the test go?

tell more

al
 
6br/308

Why not set it up as a switch-barrel and have both? I did just that with one of my Remington 6BRs, and it turned out very well.
 
I did the same: a switch barrel with 6BR and .308win.

And put a rail on the forend to use with a bipod and shoot on F/TR and Open.
 
Since you state you are using the savage as a foundation, stay with .308 and be grouped with people with similar rigs,,,, if you want to play within the rules of ftr,,, you can have multiple barrels with versions of the 308 by changing the freebore and barrel twist. As long as 308 W go gauge chambers, you are within the rules.

If you enter the f-open world with the 6 BR,,, you will be shooting against 6.5x47, 6.5-284 and straight 284's on very high end rigs. Thats not to say the 6 BR cant do very well at 1000, but the other bigger calibers with .600 Plus BC bullets tend to work better when the wind starts blowing.

My f-open rig being built has 6.5x47 barrels, but also a 308 palma .010 freebore 17 twist barrel to shoot 125 and 134 grain BIB bullets at 300 and out to 600. I can probably stick a bipod on the gun and swap scopes and make ftr weight if I wanted to.
 
TXPPC65 said:
Since you state you are using the savage as a foundation, stay with .308 and be grouped with people with similar rigs,,,, if you want to play within the rules of ftr,,, you can have multiple barrels with versions of the 308 by changing the freebore and barrel twist. As long as 308 W go gauge chambers, you are within the rules.

If you enter the f-open world with the 6 BR,,, you will be shooting against 6.5x47, 6.5-284 and straight 284's on very high end rigs. Thats not to say the 6 BR cant do very well at 1000, but the other bigger calibers with .600 Plus BC bullets tend to work better when the wind starts blowing.

My f-open rig being built has 6.5x47 barrels, but also a 308 palma .010 freebore 17 twist barrel to shoot 125 and 134 grain BIB bullets at 300 and out to 600. I can probably stick a bipod on the gun and swap scopes and make ftr weight if I wanted to.
Click to expand...

Interesting perspective,

I can't disagree with this TXPPC65, good way to dissect the dilemma.

al
 
6mmBR vs. 6.5 Creedmoor

I'm new to this board.

I like paper & varmints.
Not into formal competition (yet?)

I have been looking at the Savage 12 LRPV in 6mmBR
vs. putting together a 6.5 Creedmoor.

One of my friends has one, he doesn't reload...and gives me the empties...so cases shouldn't be too much of a problem.

My main interest is varmints at 500yds+.

Thoughts?
 
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phil-243 said:
I'm new to this board.

I like paper & varmints.
Not into formal competition (yet?)

I have been looking at the Savage 12 LRPV in 6mmBR
vs. putting together a 6.5 Creedmoor.

One of my friends has one, he doesn't reload...and gives me the empties...so cases shouldn't be too much of a problem.

My main interest is varmints at 500yds+.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...


False economy, BTDT, got the T-shirt! :)

Brass, the availability thereof is a non issue.......... plus the brass fired by your friend is useless to you.

PROPERLY set up you can buy 50 6BR cases and fire them 50 times. That's 2500 firings for a cost of less than 25 bucks for cases.... and they'll SHOOT properly.

My opinion is to get the 6BR in an 8" twist and send off five cases and 75bucks to The Brothers Harrell out in Salem Virginnee, get'cherself a proper sizing die.

Go shoot stuff.

al
 
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