600 yard question

D

Don Nielson

New member
Why does the IBS only shoot 5 shots in the Heavy Gun? Seems a shame to build a big heavy monstor and only shoot five shots. Also don't understand muzzle brake rules. Don
 
Hi Don

Don't you and Lou have anything better to do this winter than to face East and ponder all the injustice in the world?

I would love to see 10 shots for heavy gun and I hear there may be an agenda item this coming year to that effect.

Dave
 
Don Nielson said:
Why does the IBS only shoot 5 shots in the Heavy Gun? Seems a shame to build a big heavy monster and only shoot five shots. Also don't understand muzzle brake rules. Don
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Don, we can't afford 10 shots. Most of the 600 yard shooters in HG shoot something like their LG. I don't think I have ever seen a 60 pounder in 600 yard here in the Southeast. Someone will probably correct me here.


Is this what you are talking about?

For Long Range LG "Muzzle brakes may be used, but they may not be of a "clamshell" or any other design that exit gases to the rear""

For Long Range HG "Muzzle brakes are not allowed".
 
thanks for asking

HI Don..that is the big ??? lots-0-folks have asked for some time now...there was a thread on here a cupla yrs ago and several posters said they were afraid of "WEARING OUT" thier bbls!!!!!! Most of them were driving to their local ranges out in the hills somewhere and listning to a few good shooters give a lil sermon and then shoot one or two targets (one LG and one HG) and then be happy to watch the shoot off then drive bak home to do the evening chores.....I am reluctant to drive/fly, hundreds/thousands of miles and just shoot a cupla targets!!!! ....and the HG rule that doesnt allow muzzle breaks is beyond me....I know I was at a match one time and the fellow beside me was shooting a big 30 mag of some kind...during practice (with a crowd behind him) he kept asking if it was bothering me when he fired his behometh (sp)...the only thing bothering me was HIM...hahaha.........usually at a long range event the benches are spaced far enuf apart that the use or non use of brakes is irelevant.....
I am disabled and cant carry a heavy gun...so I shoot my light gun in both classes....so this limits me to cal's that are lil because I cant use a brake in the heavy class at IBS events???? If I do build a large cal light gun and then remove the break (im gonna spell it both ways for the internet police..haha) ..then it knocks my fool head off......I cant understand rules that allow the construction of rifles with bbls. like truck axles and cals that will shoot a mile ...and NO BRAKE!!!????... and the ranges charge over 100$ a day to shoot four (4) targets,two matches??...thank goodness for the NBRSA and the limit on range fees.....
OBTW,,,congrats on your efforts in the long range game...you have shure made a big splash (like a pumkin would) and are shooting lots of great groups and records....it is good to have officers that get out there and compete actively ......Roger
 
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Don

I think that shooters of IBS persuasion do not like to shoot big groups and they know that 10-shot groups are bigger than 5-shot groups.

That is why they prefer tournaments with 1-shot groups (VFS).:rolleyes:;)

Ray
 
Worrying

Why Worry About What Any Disicipline Is Shooting Just Get In There And Compete And Be Happy Your Their. Bill Brawand.
 
Dave

I have been learning from my mentor, Louie, on how to stir the KaKa. Getting tired of standing at the machine grinding mandrels. Going to head out to the tunnel tommorow to test a couple 30s. Got one that holds 90+ grains and one a sensible 60+ grains. Only nine months to get ready for Byers. 1000 yard match at Sac. on sunday. Everybody welcome. Pumpkin
 
I am all for that agenda that dave has mentioned, There should 10 shots in heavy class.
 
JerrySharrett said:
I don't think I have ever seen a 60 pounder in 600 yard here in the Southeast. Someone will probably correct me here.
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Yup.

Bill Lifse tried -- same match -- but his HG was too long for the benches at Piedmont.

Oh yeah. Put me down for an IBS shooter who likes 10-shot matches. It's only rookies & cheapskates who like 5-shot matches. Truth to tell, I'd like all matches, short range as well as long range to be 10-shot matches, without increasing the time limit.
 
We have had trouble getting shooters to shoot HG class when 600 yd started. the guys would shoot LG class then go home. Now most stay and shoot both classes. I think a 10 shot group would, cause many shooter to leave after LG. IBS 600 can be shot with a 17 lb gun in both classes. A true HG is not needed for a 5 shot, but would be an advantage with a 10 shot group.
I think we would loose shooters change things in mid stream. IBS 600 is a match that a guy can show up with his Varmint rifle and do well. If you change things now it will be like 1000 yd, it will take a true HG to be in the running.


Mark Schronce
 
I'm with Mark on this one. I'm a cheep skate (note cheep).

Seriously, good ten shot groups, in the wind, without any wind indicators are partly luck. Admit it!! That is why there are winners per relay. During a given day, no two relays shoot under the same conditions so you are not comparing apples to apples except in the relay winner shootoff.

I'm all for more shooting more in a given day/event but 10 shot groups ain't it IMO. Ten shot groups in 100/200 UL/HB is why many don't shoot that either.

Charles must have the concession selling bullets and powder!! hehe
 
In NBRSA LR I have already noticed a trend toward what is common in point- blank. That is, one rifle for both classes. I believe it will happen first at 600 yards but it will come to 1000 yard too. The new small caliber mid-sized cartridges are simply too accurate and pleasant to shoot to ignore. No longer is there a need for 50 pound rifles to shoot the big 30 caliber loudenboomers.

Jerry, sure, there is an element of luck in shooting long range, even without a wind to make it interesting. But luck of the bench and relay draw is always there no matter what discipline you shoot. That is why the NBRSA format of 12 targets over 2 or 3 days tends to even things out.

And more and more shooters are using flags, even at 1000 yards.

JMHO

Ray
 
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Jerry

Is there some IBS rule that prohibits wind flags? I have set out windflags at every long range match I've been to. Don
 
Also

If you spend $150.00 to drive to a one day match it just seems silly not to fire 15 more shots. I guess IBS would be 20 more. How many matches do you attend a year?

So if you shoot the same gun in both classes what difference does it make if one has a muzzle brake and the other one doesn't?

By the way just for the record I am a Life Member of IBS. Don Nielson
 
So much talk about scaring away new shooters. Is the point to see how many shooters we can get, or to have a good competition? If you want more shooters, just give them party favors (after the match).

Somehow, I've always felt 10 shots required more skill, not more luck. Guess since I have neither, I'm not a good source.

But how many of you have stopped watching NASCAR since they went to the "put on a good show" model, & gave up racing?
 
Don Nielson said:
Is there some IBS rule that prohibits wind flags? I have set out windflags at every long range match I've been to. Don
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Don and Lou, here in the eastern mountains to get 600/1000 yards we shoot from ridge to ridge. At Oak Ridge,for example, about 10 feet in front of the bench, the ground drops off about 100-200 feet, according to where you measure. At Hawks Ridge (1000 yards) the terrain drops off probably 100 yards in many places.

We have 2 100/200 ranges (Unaka and Rockingham) where guy wires were need on the flag poles, the right side. They are filling those gullies in some. Still need 15 foot poles. That is why we are called ridge runners.

I don't shoot any 1000 yard and only 4-5 600 yard events. When Oak Ridge shot in the last 2 years we have been at the SS, IBS Nats, or NBRSA Nats.

But, IBS shoots 4 targets not 3. So we shoot 20 record rounds per event not 15.


As to Lou stirring up dookie, just don't stir Tooley. He's a B**** when he gets mad. Swells up and everything!!

Charles, I think party favors is a great idea. Just let me pick the favors. And, yes, they are ruining NASCAR. That biscuit looking car sucks, literally.
 
Lou
I've been know to stir the dung pot on occasion.

As far as the 1000yd format, turnout, range size and a host of other reasons come into play. We can discuss them at the Super Shoot if you want.

Jerry
I'm swelling up but it's from too much food and vino.

1. I would like to see 600 yd IBS Hvy gun shoot 10 shots.
2. I would like to see 1000 yd. IBS Nationals go to a 4 or 5 target aggregate. 5 would be better. That can be shoot in a 3 or 4 day format depending the club, and that is no more loading than going to a two day/two match event and being ready to shoot shoot off's and have one extra set of cases in case you had to refire a target.
We would know who the best shooter is. Because of our large turnout, sometimes 150+, I don't think we would ever go past a 5 target format. Also the help would rebel.

I love shooting in Byers for NBRSA Nationals. 6 targets/2 guns. Short of a family emergency I'll be there in Sept.

Party favors???? Next it will be enclosed, heated and air condioned firing line with a good looking cocktail waitress serving refreshments. There's a thought.

Hey why even score the targets. Everybody shoots, takes their targets home and writes what ever score and group they want on them and everybody's a winner. Seemed like a natural progression these days.

Dave
 
there was an agenda item this year at the IBS winter meeting to allow LG with muzzle brake in the HG class as long as it met all LG rules. The LR committee was against it and it got voted down at the winter meeting last weekend I understand. The reason was LGs shooting next to a HG would bother the HG shooter or something like that. Go figure.

It will be redone again this year along with another agenda item to allow muzzle brakes on HG. this will be item one and the LG in HG will be agenda item 2.

Probably a third item to make LG 10 shots, what the heck.

BH
 
I would like to see a regular 1,000yd match go to 2 target per gun. instead of being lucky and winning my relay. I proved that at the last 1,000yd nationals. I won my relay with an 8" group. I had major pressure and primiers blowing on each round from the 1st to the 10th. I watched the flag on the first shot and that was the last time i even thought about the conditions. I was more concerned with the gun.
 
I would like to see a regular 1,000yd match go to 2 target per gun. instead of being lucky and winning my relay. I proved that at the last 1,000yd nationals. I won my relay with an 8" group. I had major pressure and primers blowing on each round from the 1st to the 10th. I watched the flag on the first shot and that was the last time i even thought about the conditions. I was more concerned with the gun.
 
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