45x Leupold too much power for F-Class

[seblambang]

Al,
Most of my shooting is done out west. We have 'dry' mirage. In Lodi, WI I was trying to read the liquid mirage...sometimes called rain. Completely different technique is required.

Larry sir, I know these words (the "quote") came from a really good - World Class Shooter and really knows what he's talking about.
Could you please teach me with the "completely different technique is required"?

Many thanks in advance...love to learn,
seb.

 

[RLHBUSL]

So I've been wondering myself why some shooters prefer to crank down their scope, or use just 24 X or so power...?

Seb,

In my experience, if you can't see the mothball to be able to repeat your point of aim (or more often, can't see your sighter shots to decide how to hold in changing wind conditions) the magnification is not much help. But, what do I know, I'm still learning how to read the wind and am far from knowing how to read the mirage.

Ryan

 

[seblambang]

Ryan,
Within the 7 minutes relay in point blank group match, if you can hardly see the mothball because of super heavy mirage (worst scenario)... chance is you can't repeat the point of aim...i.e. for a good group. (I've never shot in that worst scenario, yet). Very often you need to hold off, shoot as fast as possible ("stealing" for some seconds) and/or wait for the same condition. I would carefully watch wind pattern of the range (needs time), instead of the windflags, windprobes, and the mirage. I can actually use one or two or three of these elements as reference(s), depends on the condition & time limit, but I prefer to watch at least two elements. If there is no (or not much) mirage, I usually watch the windflags & probes only & set the scope focus exactly at the target, but still aware with the wind pattern of the range because it can help to judge when to start to shoot for the record.
So in order, personally I will watch the windflags (#1), the probes (#2), then the mirage (#3). But in condition with heavy mirage I try to watch three of them at a time and see how they displace the bullets on target.
Fortunately in point blank BR, we have a black square on top of the mothball. You still can see it even in heavy mirage.

I have never shot BR competition beyond 500 meters, so far, so I can't comment...

seb.

 

[RLHBUSL]

Seb,

So I've been wondering myself why some shooters prefer to crank down their scope, or use just 24 X or so power...?

Within the 7 minutes relay in point blank group match, if you can hardly see the mothball because of super heavy mirage (worst scenario)... chance is you can't repeat the point of aim...i.e. for a good group.

I think you've answered your own question why some might choose to use a scope with less magnification.

Ryan

 

[LarryBartholome]

Seb & Ryan,

I think you are trying to apply/discuss BR techniques and attitudes to LR F-Class. While it has been called belly BR it has too many difference to be call BR anything. We don't have a mothball or square to use for aiming marks. We have a 44" diameter black bull with very thin white/light tan lines that tend to fad way in heavy mirage. On a clear, no mirage day it is not a bad aiming mark. With the mirage up it can be a bugger. Combine this with having the target pulled down after every shot and runback up. Plus having to fire up to 20 record shots, sometimes taking turns firing with one or two other shooters it is an entirely different game.

Seb you have to understand that I am a lefthander and therefore operate out of the right side of my brain. I shoot intuitively. I don't think about very much while shooting. I learned to shoot without range flags of any kind. And try as I might I always forget to look at them once I start a string. This is not a good thing, but it does I think explain why I don't turn my power down in heavy mirage. My only input is the mirage and I use all of that input I can see to gage the changes. I am not saying I don't look at other factors such as flags, grass, dust but that my main focus is on the mirage and many times that is all I see when I am in a zone.

Now getting back to the 'dry mirage' and 'liquid mirage'. When the mirage goes away in overcast conditions or even in rain I tend to get lost because my main indicator is gone. Then I have to resort to different techniques. I have trouble seeing difference in the range flags we use here. They are not like a sea of flags at a point-blank BR match. If the liquid mirage is very heavy the flags don't react the way they do when dry. This has to be taken in to account when reading them. Of course the dust is gone and the grass is wet also. In Lodi, WI I couldn't read a thing that made sense to me and I started trying to read the rain drops. No help with that either. When all else fails there is always the age old technique called chasing the spotter and I use it quite often.

Thanks for making the best rest in the world,
Larry

 

[seblambang]

Thanks you sir.

seb.

 

[RLHBUSL]

Larry,

You're exactly right - I am applying my understanding from short range benchrest because I don't know jack about F-class. So, I think I'll bow out of the discussion at this point. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

Ryan

 

[TXPPC65]

I use Schmidt and Bender PM II 12-50x and Sightron SIII 10-50x scopes on my f-open rifles. Shooting in the heat and humidity of Houston, I seldom turn the power down.

I am finishing an FTR rig and depending on the weight of the rifle comes out with bipod, may use a Leupold Competition Scope.

 

[milanuk]

So I've been wondering myself why some shooters prefer to crank down their scope, or use just 24 X or so power...?

Seb,

Some days, the best wind indicator on the range is the spotter in your neighbors target

Seriously, if the conditions change abruptly its not uncommon for some shooters to hold up (assuming USA-style string fire here) and watch the others merrily punch a few out the side before they wise up. Then its a game of chicken... you go first... no, you go first Someone has to lead off and be the guinea pig for the rest. Kind of going slightly off-topic... but this is where a separate spotting scope with a wide-angle / long eye-relief lens pays dividends: you can see 2-3 targets either side of your own - or 5-6 frames over and watch Larry's target

If you don't have a spotting scope, turning down the power can gain you some field of view in a pinch. Also... if shooting a mid-range match (300/500/600yds) its possible to get 'sucked in' and just look at the center - not the number board - and wind up cross-firing.

Monte

 

[manitou210]

45x at 1k or 900m for fclass

Well I have read all post and very interesting in deed, if you anyone attends a shoot at Connaught Ranges in Ottawa
Canada you had better not come with a 45x fixed scope, you will be in big trouble when mirage gets up strong.
Main range has 76 Targets the from #1 target to 76 is over 400y wide between side burms, range is in meters 900 just short of 1000y and there is a 300m with 30 frames as well as a 600y 32 frames
I use a BR 12x 42 Nightforce in F/TR class and have been down to 16x at 42x you would not see target, mirage can be extreemly
strong range runs right beside the Ottawa River about 1 mile wide and when its muggie and hot in Ottawa with no winds the mirage is a big problem. in a boil at 42x its absolutly terrible. Many US and GB shooters say its a beautifull range.

 

[LarryBartholome]

Manitou210,
As I wrote in post # 9, "To each his own..." I shot in Connaught in 2000, 2002 and 2006. Always with a 12-42x on 42. Attached is photo after 66 shot shootoff at 700 meters during 2002 FCWC. Disregard date on photo caption, was edited then.
No problems at any time for me. Hope to see you in Raton, NM in 2013 at FCWC.
Larry Bartholome