Far too many posts I'd like to quote and respond to... I will put down general thoughts, both in response to posts in this thread as well as feedback from a "newbie".
I have a HUGE amount of respect for the work Landy does with measuring/analyzing targets and calculating the statistics from the results. I come from a semi-technical background and am inclined to go with science over "art" and "black magic" every time. His statements about 8s and 9s not being fliers per say, but rather just examples of shots that are within the standard deviation but outside of where we would like them to be, or more likely(and I tend to believe strongly) a missed condition change or sloppy bench manners, resulting in dropped points, rather than an actual bad round. As stated above I am a relative newbie compared to the experience of many. I have gone through a little under 2 cases of ammo since I started shooting benchrest in July 2015, including testing lots and all the matches I have shot. In that time I have had 1 round that went inches, with an S, as in many, from the expected point of impact. It would have been many standard deviations from the center of the composite group created by all the other rounds in that case of ammo. That is 1 round in the ~9000 rounds I've fired. I may go another 10 years or 50 cases of ammo before it happens again, or it may happen again tomorrow. When and if it does, I will B**** and moan for a few minutes, pull up my big boy pants and get on with life. No different than if I was at the dirt track or drag strip and had an electrode in a $5 spark plug fail and cost me the race, or any of a 100 other examples of 1 small piece of the puzzle being "off" costing me the win. Don't make excuses, get back on the horse, and keep at it.
I am passively opposed to changing the scoring in IR5050 to the 275 model as a method of increasing participation. I feel we don't have a unfair scoring system in place that is routinely rewarding an undeserving winner at the expense of the better shooter. I also feel that the thought of a 249 automatically putting you out of contention is a load of cow pies as well. I would encourage everyone to head over to the IR5050 site and really take a close look at the data. Unfortunately it is difficult to extract and put it into excel to further analyze, but is relatively easy to just view on the website. I took the time to gather a few facts from the 2017 season thus far. In the 10.5# class so far this year there have been 1138 targets shot in 156 3gun matches. Of those 1138 targets 144 of them were 250s, or about 12.65%. There were .923 250s per match, less than 1 per match if the distribution was even across all matches, which it isn't, not even close. I know a match I attended this year had 5 or 6 from just 8 or 9 shooters, and I doubt that is an anomaly but don't have exact data to back it up, other than poking around in the results and noticing trends. When the conditions are "good" there are plenty of shooters with adequate equipment and skills to take advantage at every match I have ever attended. I took a good look at the results from the club I run matches at and the results rarely changed when I computed score using the 275 model and comparing them to the current scoring model. I would encourage everyone to look at some of your club's results from this year and see what the change would be. Minimal changes at best, and doubtful that it would increase participation in my opinion.
I then looked at some sporter results. Much harder to do as the scoreline includes sporter match results as well as 3gun match results. If you look to the top of the list you will see Ed Hosier. I met Ed briefly at the nationals this year, but unfortunately didn't have much to say as I was star-struck to be in the presence of that good of a sporter shooter. In looking at Ed's sporter results this year he has shot 18 250s in 97 sporter targets. 18.5% of the time Ed shoots a 250 with his sporter, and many of them have big X counts too. Dominating performance to say the least! Another interesting stat is that 24.7% of the time Ed drops 4 or more points, leaving the door wide open for someone to shoot a 249, 248, or even a 247 to possibly take the win. Again, I would say- Don't make excuses, get back on the horse, and do it again, even when you drop a point. Not trying to single Ed out, but he has one of the larger sample sizes since he shoots lots of sporter targets.
As long as we are talking sporters and being a new guy- What is with the thought that sporters are expensive and hard to build? And along the same lines, that rimfire guns are somehow harder to build than centerfire rifles? I have built both of the guns I am currently shooting. They also happen to be the only 2 rimfire benchrest rifles I have built, or shot for that matter. The only other real bench gun I have shot is my uncle's 6ppc at prairie dogs. I put both guns together using readily available components available from the common suppliers. The places I ordered from didn't know me, as I was unheard of in the rimfire world(still am, for the record...) when I was ordering the parts. I am confident that I did not receive hand selected components or special treatment. I am also confident I got the next one on the pile as my orders were pulled. Did I happen to steal a golden horseshoe off a unicorn to end up with a competitive sporter on my first rimfire build? Is it just a myth that rimfires, and especially sporters are harder to build than any other rifle? From the little machine shop knowledge I have, threading and chambering barrels is equivalent to apprentice level machine shop work. Indicating the bore of round objects in a 4 jaw chuck is everyday practice. Is the oft repeated talk of being hard to build and expensive what keeps people away? Looking back at both my sporter and heavy gun builds I know the heavy gun was ~$1000 more expensive, largely because the stock and scope were both twice the cost of their sporter counterparts. Seems like a ton of money, until you talk to the guy you know who runs sprint cars and has a $25k engine that blows a couple times a season and needs a full rebuild, or the guy with the $8k drift boat carrying $5k in fly rods and reels. This is a hobby, and hobbies are supposed to be expensive
Talking sporters and heavy guns bring us to another topic. Having to own and shoot 2 guns to play IR5050 3gun. I hear plenty of gripes that you would have to have a second gun to compete and what a burden it is. Somehow that burden goes away when guys show up with 2-3-4 unlimited/Heavy guns with ammo matched to each gun for an ARA/PSL match, cause redundancy is always a good thing and it would be a shame if the barrel went south, or the humidity or temperature moved out of the primary guns preferred range and they shot poorly that match. I also hear about having to have 2 rest setups. Not true as you can shoot ARA/PSL off a 2 piece setup. The argument has been made before that the 1 piece rest isn't an advantage and doesn't help scores, so sell it and get a 2 piece setup and then you can shoot any class anywhere. Seems to me there is little merit, and lots of excuse making. Don't make excuses, show up and shoot, or tell us that a 1 piece rest is easier to shoot from and that's why you won't shoot IR5050. Can't have it both ways here...
The ammo chase- Finding ammo that shoots good in your gun can be a chore, and can be expensive. We all know this. It is part of the rimfire game, and isn't unique to IR5050. Is anyone complaining that ARA or PSL attendance is down because of the ammo chase? Is it easier to find ammo for an unlimited gun than a 10.5# or sporter? Are the a select few who are in tight with the distribution network who are getting the good ammo before the rest of us have a chance? For the past 2 years I have been shooting eley match that was made/imported the year prior to the season I shot it in. The first season I blind squirreled 2 different lots, a 2 machine @ 1056, and a 5 machine at 1068. I shot a couple matches, didn't finish anywhere near the top, and had fun doing it. I didn't know what I didn't know so I went back for more at the end of September and bought enough for my planned matches in 2016. If I remember correctly ammo was a little more scarce in 15 as everything coming in was getting bought up within days of arrival. I tried to buy test lots, but by the time it made it from Zanders to me 1/2 were already sold out. I started this spring with enough ammo left from last season to shoot the first match in April. I ended up ordering 7 test lots. Most shot decent, but I wouldn't know "killer" ammo if it was written on the box, and 1 showed more promise than the rest. Killough ran a sale in May so I jumped on a full case. I have been shooting it all season, in both the sporter and heavy gun. I have shot as good as 250-20x with both guns, and have also managed to also shoot some low 230s with both guns as well. Pure luck that I was able to find decent shooting ammo that worked in both guns and allowed me to be competitive some of the time? Is there better ammo that I missed out on that would have resulted in more Xs and no scores in the 230s? Is it an internet legend that you must test 40-75-120 lots of ammo to find anything remotely good? Is talk of having to test hundreds or thousands in ammo to find something that allows you to be competitive scaring people off?
15 years ago I would see cardboard backers with a grid of holes left behind on the range. Occasionally I would see a target in the trash and thought it looked kinda neat. Just out of college, still living at home, and earning a meager living didn't leave much room for benchrest. Fast forward to 2008 and an email comes from the club asking for volunteers to help pour concrete bench tops for the new 50yd range. I helped, met some of the guys, talked a little benchrest, and then shelved it for another 7 years until 2015. Now in a better position to dispose of income on recreation I checked the club calendar and showed up at a match, after already placing my order for a 2500XS action. I met a group of guys who were willing to answer questions and explain some of the ins and outs. I also witnessed Doug Bell shoot a world record target that day, which almost caused me to reconsider doing this if I was going to have to compete against that level, but his humble reaction and commenting that the next target he shot wouldn't be nearly as good convinced me to stay the course. Dean Bircher stayed after that match and spent a couple hours giving me more information than I could comprehend at the time. The willingness of those shooters to share what they knew with a young guy just starting out made a huge difference. I would still be messing around trying to figure out what end was up if they hadn't shaved YEARS off the learning curve for me by sharing what they knew. As stated by others, one of the biggest barriers to new participants is even knowing it exists. As ambassadors for our sport we need to get the word out about the game we play, and be as inviting as possible to anyone who shows even a shred of interest. Keep it fun, after all it is just a game. As a new shooter who started with no equipment I also didn't find the current rules difficult to follow, overbearing, or overly restrictive. I think some minor tweaks could be made that don't alter the game, but allow for more freedom and access to equipment.
Potential Take-Aways:
Encourage people to show up and shoot. Get the word out to anyone who will listen. Let the newbie shoot whatever they bring to get a feel for the game. It makes little sense to chase someone away who probably isn't going to be competitive in their first match anyways. If they are serious they will quickly upgrade and meet the rules, if not, at least you know you tried to get them involved. Offer to loan equipment if you have extra, or to try your equipment after a match.
Worry less about what the other guy is doing and making excuses about it, and more time worrying about hitting the next X on your own card.
Recognize those who do well. Share results with one another via the forums and social media. Clap and give atta-boys at matches.
If you have read this far you may be thinking that many of my comments are pretty arrogant, about how good my equipment is or lucky I am in finding ammo, or how easy machining is. That is not my intention in the least. I have been fortunate to win some target this year, even some matches, but I've finished 3rd, 4th, 7th, 17th, or worse more times than I have won, by a large margin. I made the comments to hopefully show that getting started as a newbie and becoming competitive is possible and accessible, and the situation isn't as dire as some people try to make it.
Overall- Thank you to Tony for starting the topic and getting the ball rolling. I find this type of open, back and forth dialogue to be a positive which will hopefully allow us to maintain and grow the sport.
Travis
PS- Show up and shoot!
