.200 short 22BR
- Thread starter skeetlee
- Start date
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Cheechako
Guest
Lee - I think that's a 22 Brat, isn't it? You should be able to search around and find someone who's worked with it. Try old Precision Shooting mags. That was one of Dick Wright's wasn't it?
Ray
Ray
Boyd Allen
Active member
Dick once told me that consistency of powder charge was very important with that cartridge. He is registered on this site, and posts from time to time. You might PM him with questions.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I have a friend who recently had a new Walldog reamer made up and has made a rifle or two with it. He loves the chambering and deems it to be very accurate. He brags it up so well that I am considering doing one up for myself. I think he went with a .222 length neck on his. He believes the longer neck aids in barrel life.
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Cheechako
Guest
I was gonna guess that a .200 short BR is probably very close to a .100 short WalDog. Get one of each and measure the capacity. Maybe the load data is interchangeable??? Only my SWAG, though.
Edit -
Brat w/ Rem brass = 28.5 gr H2o
WD w/ Lapua brass = 30.0 gr H2o
Ray
Edit -
Brat w/ Rem brass = 28.5 gr H2o
WD w/ Lapua brass = 30.0 gr H2o
Ray
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My friend brought over his .200 short BR barrel today and man does that thing look cool. Man it one little case at .200 short. I took the barrel and when i got home i realized my bolt face is ppc only, so i am a little bummed. I hate to modify my bolt just for this barrel so its either turn my case heads down or give it back. Not sure what i will do just yet. Got to sleep on it a while! thanks lee
David Halblom
Flying Fish Fundamentals
there a few folks out there who have taken the time to grind tools that can rebate BR cases into PPC in 1 pass. Or you can do it the old fashioned way w/ single point. Either way, you are NOT out of commission.
I would rather do a 30 PPC myself
Yes. I had an exchange with Russ at Stiller Precision about a second.30BR bolt for my drop port. I had reasons to not want to turn the rims. Leaving out the specifics of that discussion, Russ did say
As to powder, he said
This was a personal email to me, but I doubt Russ would mind posting just those couple of sentences. Food for thought; we've all thought the .30 PPC needed N-120.
My good friend, the gunsmith Joel Pendergraft, has been shooting a .30 PPC at the Black Creek IBS score matches. Since he only shoots 2-3 point-blank matches a year, I thought his 2nd place finish showed the rifle's capability pretty well. He does use N-120, and was most interested in the notion that 4198 would serve. In my mind, that's been the perceived drawback with the .30 PPC.
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Pete Wass
Well-known member
What sort of velocities can one get from a 30 PPC with H-4198? If it will go at least 2960 it's good enough for the Score game. One has to admit, H-4198 is dern near a Miricle Powder. Of course, N-130 or that Norma 205 or whatever it is and perhaps Re-7 will work is the H does.
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Don't know. Actually, if it will shoot 250-23x, it's likely good enough.
BTW, I use to shoot my .30-BR at about 2,850 with the 118-(10) BIBs. Shot quite well at the Chartlotte 300 yd group matches. But I've caved, I now use the 34.5 grains (about) of 4198 like everyone else. This with the 112s.
BTW, I use to shoot my .30-BR at about 2,850 with the 118-(10) BIBs. Shot quite well at the Chartlotte 300 yd group matches. But I've caved, I now use the 34.5 grains (about) of 4198 like everyone else. This with the 112s.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I have one of those tools I had made @ a local tool grinder but haven't used it much lately. I sold the rifle I had it made for. As we all know, there is a big difference between a Walldog and a 30PPC. My friend who built his Walldog didn't want it to shoot competition with but to shoot in the informal matches he and his friends hold often. He likes the lack of recoil and the ease of tuning the chambering as well as the lesser cost of bullets, etc. At the cost of bullets these days, 30's aren't very attractive as toys anymore.
Boyd Allen
Active member
While we are on the Waldog...
Back in the day, a friend got tired of the trouble of making the brass, and when he mentioned this to his friend, Lee Six, he told him that a full length .22 PPC would do as well if the barrel was a 15"twist. Lee had done it, and on that advice my friend tried it, and his experience confirmed what Lee had told him. It was as accurate as the Waldog, and a lot easier to make brass for.
Back in the day, a friend got tired of the trouble of making the brass, and when he mentioned this to his friend, Lee Six, he told him that a full length .22 PPC would do as well if the barrel was a 15"twist. Lee had done it, and on that advice my friend tried it, and his experience confirmed what Lee had told him. It was as accurate as the Waldog, and a lot easier to make brass for.
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Cheechako
Guest
Boyd - My understanding was that it was a 220 Russian, not a PPC. George Kelbly also used it. It was a long time ago and I'm not 100% positive.
Ray
Ray
Boyd Allen
Active member
I sent you a PM
ballpowder
Member
I cannot speak for the short version but I do have each a Billy Stevens built 22Br and 22-100 PPC. The full BR is a tad too much although it does extremely well with varget and it would not shock me to find it likes IMR 4320 either. Both of the 4895 powders look to be a good fit. As for shorties my PPC is awesome. I'm still kind of breaking in my newest barrels, one is a 14" and one is a 15" twist. Jury still out but if one wanted to maximize the full BR case a 1-15" twist would now be my first choice. Hindsight. I say try it. Ithink you will end up with a fat Waldog seeing as you can use Lapua brass so levels the playing field a bit.
Good luck, Tim
Good luck, Tim
I also think a full size 22 ppc might work just fine. The reason i say this is that with my .100 short 22ppc i have to stuff the case as full as i can get it with n133 to get the darn thing to shoot. I also know that ron hoehn and mike Ratigan use a .070 short 22ppc as they feel that gives them there best accuracy with n133. So maybe a FS 22ppc would work with the proper powder and twist rate??? Lee
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Cheechako
Guest
How about a 220 Russian? Those who have shot it say it's as accurate as any of the wildcats based on it. Maybe we're going thru a lot of case-forming gyrations for nothing? The same for the 6mm Russian. If Doc Lou hadn't reformed those SAKO 220 Russian cases into his 6mm wildcat, maybe we'd be shooting both of them today.
Ray
Ray
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Octopus
Guest
I am Peter Wass's buddy down in FL who made up the Waldog he spoke of above. Being limited for 90% of our shooting to 100 yards we have dropped back from the 6 PPC. We tried two 22 PPC barrels but never could get them to come up to the 6 PPC precision. The slower powders like Varget helped but the 6 PPC was always ahead at the end of the day.
I had been shooting a 222 with 30 gr Bergers, 35 & 40 gr V max bullets over H 4198 with some suscess. With the light bullets I had the velocity up to 3800+. Our range is bunkered and quite tricky in some winds. With the fast bullets the little 222 did better than expected. It would beat the 6 PPCs and 22 PPC 30 to 50% of the time.
After thinking about it for a while we sent the 22 PPC reamer back to Dave and had it reground to a WalDog with a longer than normal neck and very short lead as we planned to shoot lighter bullets. The longest bullet we shoot is the 52 gr 22 flat base match bullet.
So far we have made up two of the new Waldog Barrels. (We rechambered the two 22 PPC barrels we had made eariler.) These are both Shillen 1-14 twist barrels. Both are excellent shooters and very easy to shoot as torque and recoil is very low. They are lots of fun and do not cost much to shoot. They shoot the 45 gr V max bullets about as tight as the 52 gr Bergers @ 100 yards provided each are loaded, that is seated, right. Either IMR or H 4198 works.
The accuracy of these 22 Waldogs @ 100 yards is exceptional. Other things being equal they are hard to beat. Maybe at 200 yards they can keep up with the 6 PPC. However, at longer ranges I would expect the 6 PPC to win out. With such a light recoil they are easy to shoot. They make a young or new shooter look good!
Capt. Bob and I have shot the 222 for years. The number of rounds we get out of a barrel is hard to accept. Bob's 222 barrel had been rechambered so many times it is now down to less than 18 inches. As a 222 it had well over 20,000 rounds down the tube. He rechambered it to the 22 Waldog to use for fire forming brass. Even today fire forming Waldog brass it still shoots under a dime.
Our hope is these new Waldog barrels with the longer necks will last longer. We usually shoot at least two days a week and often three or more days a weeks so it does not take long for us to put a large number of rounds down a barrel.
I had been shooting a 222 with 30 gr Bergers, 35 & 40 gr V max bullets over H 4198 with some suscess. With the light bullets I had the velocity up to 3800+. Our range is bunkered and quite tricky in some winds. With the fast bullets the little 222 did better than expected. It would beat the 6 PPCs and 22 PPC 30 to 50% of the time.
After thinking about it for a while we sent the 22 PPC reamer back to Dave and had it reground to a WalDog with a longer than normal neck and very short lead as we planned to shoot lighter bullets. The longest bullet we shoot is the 52 gr 22 flat base match bullet.
So far we have made up two of the new Waldog Barrels. (We rechambered the two 22 PPC barrels we had made eariler.) These are both Shillen 1-14 twist barrels. Both are excellent shooters and very easy to shoot as torque and recoil is very low. They are lots of fun and do not cost much to shoot. They shoot the 45 gr V max bullets about as tight as the 52 gr Bergers @ 100 yards provided each are loaded, that is seated, right. Either IMR or H 4198 works.
The accuracy of these 22 Waldogs @ 100 yards is exceptional. Other things being equal they are hard to beat. Maybe at 200 yards they can keep up with the 6 PPC. However, at longer ranges I would expect the 6 PPC to win out. With such a light recoil they are easy to shoot. They make a young or new shooter look good!
Capt. Bob and I have shot the 222 for years. The number of rounds we get out of a barrel is hard to accept. Bob's 222 barrel had been rechambered so many times it is now down to less than 18 inches. As a 222 it had well over 20,000 rounds down the tube. He rechambered it to the 22 Waldog to use for fire forming brass. Even today fire forming Waldog brass it still shoots under a dime.
Our hope is these new Waldog barrels with the longer necks will last longer. We usually shoot at least two days a week and often three or more days a weeks so it does not take long for us to put a large number of rounds down a barrel.