Freedom benchrest

L

Lou Murdica

Member
Good news

Mike Sosenko is the short range president for FREEDOM BENCHREST SR

Our directors are the people that put on the matches

So each Range will have a director for Freedom .



Also we have increased the weight on the LT VARIANT RIFLE. To 11 1/2 pounds

It now makes it possible to find a stock and use a tuner and make weight.



Also

The 2026 Freedom Nationals

format will be.

Friday

LV 100 - morning

HV 100- afternoon

Saturday

Unlimited 100 morning

5 shot

Unlimited 200 afternoon

5 shot

Sunday

HV 200 morning

LV 200 afternoon



No bench rotation all three days you stay on same Bench.



Either me or Mike will be mailing out you members card



This will be posted on our website

FREEDOMBENCHRESTSR.com

We will be adding all the new ranges also for the next year and their schedules

lets us know your thoughts


Have a great Christmas and holiday.
 
Is Jim Bauer with freedom bench rest a member here? I signed up to become a member in October. Received an email from Jim stating that someone would contact me shortly. October 30th I replied to that email stating, I haven't received anything yet. No response to that email. I also haven't heard anything from freedom for 3 months.
 
Louie,
How about making these two long needed rule changes?

" The varmint class rifle stock shall be no wider than 3" at any point measured at right angle to the bores centerline." no other constraints!!
or another version "The varmint rifle class stock may be of any configuration as long as the rifles class weight limit is not exceeded.

"The varmint class rifle barrels may by any contour as long as the rifle's class weight limit is not exceeded "

I feel these two rules "changes" are long needed for BR to really be a way to develop and improve accuracy.

Regards,
Steve Kostanich
 
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Steve, your paired proposals seem to either require no fore end area (forward of the trigger guard, I think that’s already the definition) wider than 3”, OR remove all fore end requirements. If I’m reading it correctly, I prefer the first. Four-inch fore ends are silly IMO and go beyond my imagination of a rifle intended to whack groundhogs.

Simplifying barrel contour rules makes more sense to me for a 13.5-lb rifle. That extra pound is enough. Maybe a rule that says just must taper at least 1/8-inch from receptor muzzle? Easier to measure. I could be persuaded into straight bull but no integral bulges. Anything fatter must be attached and removable.

Like way-fat stocks, I just don’t see wasp-waist barrels fitting in the field of varmint guns.

Please lemme know if I’m missing something.
 
Old M-1Shooter

My intention with the stock rule change was to stimulate experimentation in stock design for BR shooting. If the old NBRSA rule is used in Freedom, you cannot determine if a stock is legal until AFTER the rifle is in finished form. Example: BAT makes br actions in three lengths, 6.5",
7.5", and 8.5".This means the reference point on the barrel to determine the butt angle, the longer action rifles will have a flater butt angle then a shorter action rifle. Even with the NBRSA rule I have never had a stock configuration checked for legal, and I have rifles with actions of varying lengths, and that's in over 55 years of short range BR shooting.
Creating a rule that opens experimenting in design allows for growth in the sport and maybe smaller groups!

As far as the barrel contour, what does a specific countour contribute to accuracy. As long as the rifle makes the class weight, what difference does a specific contour make. It already exists in the current NBRSA Sporter rule. I have a Sporter rifle that makes 10.5 lbs. with a 20"
1.2" straight barrel, no problem.

The rifles we are talking about are competition match rifles, not ground hog wackers, even though they are called "Varmint rifles"

FWIW
Steve Kostanich
 
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Thanks for that Steve! There's a real "tension" between controlling the silliness and equipment race with rules, and allowing innovation. I favor both and it seems in my short time doing this (started with .50 1,000-yard 10-11 years ago) that the bulk of our competitors prefer that the rules stay static. Predictable. IMO, anything called "varmint" should be reasonably easy to haul out of the truck to a rockpile for whacking rock chucks. Current rules do well enough for that.

But your points about the rear end of the stock and the buttplate show a difficulty with clearly enough defined geometry vs. the receiver length complicating it. Maybe a re-definition that just uses something like a minimum or maximum angle from the bore line? Defining a "box" that the stock (or the portion behind the trigger guard) must "fit" in like IPSC/USPSA did with one of their now too many classifications invites unintended silliness IMO.

And on further consideration, I'm now thinking that requiring straight lines from some point on the barrel to the muzzle is simple but I could be convinced it's too restrictive. *I* think wasp-waisted barrels are silly, but why not try them? Even for the silliness of making weight which will allow other weighty silliness elsewhere.

But I'll hold the line on 3-inch foreends.

?Which way to Camelot?
 

Steve Kostanich said:
Creating a rule that opens experimenting in design allows for growth in the sport and maybe smaller groups!

Steve Kostanich
Click to expand...

Hold that thought......Couple posts above this I wrote "Love them UBR rules".
I'm a wildcatting misfit that got old and decided to look at BR to satisfy needs.
The more I read over rules and regs from most of the organizations, it seemed
BR should be replaced with BS !! Yes, I currently shoot BR an get a chance to shoot
and mingle with some at the top. Here is where I'm going with this......My designs
and ideas kept me home. UBR looked promising in one respect and that is their
Unlimited class. I finaly had a fit, Jim Cline evolved on a concept to bring all shooters
under one roof, the Tack Driver. Rules are simple. Must use two piece bags, 30 cal
and under, and no more then 22 lbs. That's it........!

A proposal to Freedom, since it does say freedom, and to all other organizations.
Fidgiting with rules is one thing but why not create a class thats sole purpose is for
experimentation and inovation that all organizations would recognize ?? You would
only need very few parameters such as, only two piece rests, no electonics/electrical
on the bench, and rifle must not exceed 25 lbs. Basically the only rule is, there is no
rule other than the rests an weight limits......Call it the "Inovation Class" and all bodies
recognize it......Like always, thinking out loud.
 
Fuj said:
Hold that thought......Couple posts above this I wrote "Love them UBR rules".
I'm a wildcatting misfit that got old and decided to look at BR to satisfy needs.
The more I read over rules and regs from most of the organizations, it seemed
BR should be replaced with BS !! Yes, I currently shoot BR an get a chance to shoot
and mingle with some at the top. Here is where I'm going with this......My designs
and ideas kept me home. UBR looked promising in one respect and that is their
Unlimited class. I finaly had a fit, Jim Cline evolved on a concept to bring all shooters
under one roof, the Tack Driver. Rules are simple. Must use two piece bags, 30 cal
and under, and no more then 22 lbs. That's it........!

A proposal to Freedom, since it does say freedom, and to all other organizations.
Fidgiting with rules is one thing but why not create a class thats sole purpose is for
experimentation and inovation that all organizations would recognize ?? You would
only need very few parameters such as, only two piece rests, no electonics/electrical
on the bench, and rifle must not exceed 25 lbs. Basically the only rule is, there is no
rule other than the rests an weight limits......Call it the "Inovation Class" and all bodies
recognize it......Like always, thinking out loud.
Click to expand...
Kinda sounds like unlimited in rimfire. The reason I like it.
Todd
 
No dog in this fight at this time so I'll only say that simple rules are working well in ubr. The Custom class is simple enough...3 inch forearm, 13.5lbs and 30 cal or less. They have an Unlimited class for anything else with only a 30 cal max restriction. Even rail guns are allowed.

Another thing we do is that we allow all classes to compete on a given relay. IOW, I might be shooting a custom while you might be shooting UL at the same time. Of course scores are respective to the class you're shooting in on that relay. It seems like this could speed up matches that dedicate a full day to each class, etc. This can literally shorten matches by days, not minutes.

One last thing...IBS sr score allows you to shoot a LV rifle for records only, so it is still recognized for that purpose and wouldn't require an * in the record books because the rules were still the same. He's just shooting a 10.5lb rifle along side of most people shooting a 13.5 and he is scored as such for record purposes only.

I'm not telling anybody what to change or do, just tossing out ideas that are already in use and working for other orgs is all.
 
mwezell said:
No dog in this fight at this time so I'll only say that simple rules are working well in ubr. The Custom class is simple enough...3 inch forearm, 13.5lbs and 30 cal or less. They have an Unlimited class for anything else with only a 30 cal max restriction. Even rail guns are allowed.

Another thing we do is that we allow all classes to compete on a given relay. IOW, I might be shooting a custom while you might be shooting UL at the same time. Of course scores are respective to the class you're shooting in on that relay. It seems like this could speed up matches that dedicate a full day to each class, etc. This can literally shorten matches by days, not minutes.

One last thing...IBS sr score allows you to shoot a LV rifle for records only, so it is still recognized for that purpose and wouldn't require an * in the record books because the rules were still the same. He's just shooting a 10.5lb rifle along side of most people shooting a 13.5 and he is scored as such for record purposes only.

I'm not telling anybody what to change or do, just tossing out ideas that are already in use and working for other orgs is all.
Click to expand...
YES BUT ubr IS NOT BENCHREST SHOOTING WHICH IS HEADSUP ONE TARGET FOR ALL. ubr is handicap shooting for people that want to win but not spend the money to be competitive. so it tuff to compare their "rules" to real BENCHREST RULES. YES I HAVE NO USE for ubr

MODERATOR'S COMMENT: Mike, please re-read the first sentence of the fourth paragraph of the "Terms and rules" (you can find them at the bottom to this page). I think your comment above is out of bounds; please stay in-bounds in the future.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
rsmithsr said:
ubr is handicap shooting for people that want to win but not spend the money to be competitive.
Click to expand...
Let me point out that a UBR shooter just went against 120 of the top shooters in the country.
Worlds winnners, National match winners, Hall of fame inductees. Names like Bart Sauter, Jeff
Pinehart, Wayne Cambell, Jack Neary, Speedy Gonzales, and many more. This UBR shooter and
more like him showed up and peeled the paint......Yeah they spent some coin to get where their
at. It is what it is. I was there......

My apologies to Lou Murdica for side tracking......

Fuj
 
rsmithsr said:
YES BUT ubr IS NOT BENCHREST SHOOTING WHICH IS HEADSUP ONE TARGET FOR ALL. ubr is handicap shooting for people that want to win but not spend the money to be competitive. so it tuff to compare their "rules" to real BENCHREST RULES. YES I HAVE NO USE for ubr

MODERATOR'S COMMENT: Mike, please re-read the first sentence of the fourth paragraph of the "Terms and rules" (you can find them at the bottom to this page). I think your comment above is out of bounds; please stay in-bounds in the future.
Click to expand...
Just wow!
I guess there are folks like this around
 
rsmithsr said:
YES BUT ubr IS NOT BENCHREST SHOOTING WHICH IS HEADSUP ONE TARGET FOR ALL. ubr is handicap shooting for people that want to win but not spend the money to be competitive. so it tuff to compare their "rules" to real BENCHREST RULES. YES I HAVE NO USE for ubr

MODERATOR'S COMMENT: Mike, please re-read the first sentence of the fourth paragraph of the "Terms and rules" (you can find them at the bottom to this page). I think your comment above is out of bounds; please stay in-bounds in the future.
Click to expand...
What a dumb post.
 
OldM1Shooter said:
Thanks for that Steve! There's a real "tension" between controlling the silliness and equipment race with rules, and allowing innovation. I favor both and it seems in my short time doing this (started with .50 1,000-yard 10-11 years ago) that the bulk of our competitors prefer that the rules stay static. Predictable. IMO, anything called "varmint" should be reasonably easy to haul out of the truck to a rockpile for whacking rock chucks. Current rules do well enough for that.

But your points about the rear end of the stock and the buttplate show a difficulty with clearly enough defined geometry vs. the receiver length complicating it. Maybe a re-definition that just uses something like a minimum or maximum angle from the bore line? Defining a "box" that the stock (or the portion behind the trigger guard) must "fit" in like IPSC/USPSA did with one of their now too many classifications invites unintended silliness IMO.

And on further consideration, I'm now thinking that requiring straight lines from some point on the barrel to the muzzle is simple but I could be convinced it's too restrictive. *I* think wasp-waisted barrels are silly, but why not try them? Even for the silliness of making weight which will allow other weighty silliness elsewhere.

But I'll hold the line on 3-inch foreends.

?Which way to Camelot?
Click to expand...
And whaddyaknow? Poking around on some history and there WERE experiments with barrels tapered down from the chamber end and then back up at the muzzle. It was all about timing the barrel whip.
 
OldM1Shooter said:
And whaddyaknow? Poking around on some history and there WERE experiments with barrels tapered down from the chamber end and then back up at the muzzle. It was all about timing the barrel whip.
Click to expand...
I cannot say for centerfire but I have a rimfire Barrel in reverse taper. Benchmark it is.
 
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