Airgun Benchrest Barrel Question!

Y

YEMX

Guest
Hello all, new to the forum, and the sport. currently putting together a M-rod to get my foot in the door and get shooting! I cant wait until it's done, so i can get to some comps. I am also setting aside parts for a better bench gun to put together later as funds allow. im going to use a Dawson reciever and one of his trigger units- from what i see, its primo stuff. the barrel however is what's got me scratching my head. I've only ever used/bought Lothar Walther barrels, and I'm putting one on my M-rod. I have seen some other names- Benchmark, Krieger...and im not saying they dont do airgun barrels because obviously they do if you guys are using them- but how would i order one from them? I have never ordered a completely custom barrel from a "real" (i dont consider LW a real barrel maker for some reason) barrel maker. any help from you guys would be greatly appreciated!! cant wait to see you on the benches!
 
Hmmmm...40 Views and no response. okay- let me ask this in a different way- what kind of barrels are you guys (& gals?) using? Brand name? twist rates? rifling type? length?? I re-read my post and it doesn't really state clearly what I'm after, sorry bout that!
 
YEMX,

Welcome to bench rest! We bought a group of .177 cal Crosman barrels for our Marauder BR rig... as well as some LW match grade. We also have a great shooting Benchmark .22 cal on an Open class USFT that has shot 250s outdoors. We found that some of the Crosman barrels are as good as any we have tried.. You have to "de-burr" the transfer port etc.. but you could find a 250 shooting Crosman barrel, just as easily as anything else... at a lot less cost:)

Wayne Burns,
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
 
Well,

Since you don't consider LW a barrel maker, I guess you need to school us on how and were to get what.
 
Well I`m brand new to BR but did score a 243 13x on my 2nd target ever using a Jim Gaska LW .630" on my M-rod.Had a problem w/last row as it seemed like I ran out of
consistent air.I think with a reg. and a more experianced shooter this LW barrel would have done fine and Jim says the LW poly barrels are even more accurate.Really too
soon to tell but am going to give this barrel a chance.
 
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I'm very interested in about that barrel question.
That 22 cal Benchmark barrel which was 0mentioned... Is it specifically made airgun barrel, or in fact, rimfire barrel? I haven't heard about benchmark airgun barrels...


I have several LW barrels for my steyr LG110 and I'm pretty pleased on their performance; those tend to shoot better than steyr's original barrel.
 
Hi One can talk barrels for ever . There are a lot of barrels that can shoot high 230 to low 240 .( 250 = 100% ) . A barrel may shoot good at HV with heavy pellets or LV with light pellets , but rarely well do booth . A good production barrel may shoot 250 . You may have to do work on it to do it . A good custom barrel should do 245 and up .( with the right pellet at the right speed ) . If you have a combination ( barrel - pellet - air - and speed ) that well do 248 - 250 on a regular bases ( inside ) . You have a keeper . A supper accurate hunting rifle , say .250" , may not get you to the top of bench rest . You need a combination that well shoot groups in the ones .100 to be a top end bench rest shooter . Rick
 
Custom makers and barrel specs

How are these custom barrel makers -- like lilja, krieger, benchmark et al -- willing to machine their barrels in airgun specs??? I mean, would these machine barrels to drop in state, somewhat 16mm outer diameter, or should we be able to machine those barrels to our own specs?


I for example am lacking machinery and could only rely to some friends, if machining is needed. In the case of Lothar Walther airgun barrels, it is fairly easy task, and there appears to be couple of friends who could do the machining. But I afraid that in the case of heavy custom made rimfire barrel (outer diameter + one inch), machining would be little bit harder task than in the case of these ordinary airgun barrels.

So, I'm hoping that one could order those custom made barrels in airgun specs straight from the factory.... Could that be the case, could it be such a happy state of affairs?
 
As of now, I know of no barrel maker that is doing the machining . Most if not all well not make them down to 16MM . I have used barrels from 14MM up to .900 " . The different barrel diameters have there advantages and disadvantages . There is much less machining for a air rifle as compared to a rim fire or center fire .The barrel makers and the air rifle smiths are all experimenting at this time . Benchmark , lilja , krieger and some others have been used by air rifle smiths . I do my own and others work but there are people in all most all parts of the USA ( and world ) that work on air rifles . Here in the NE we are lucky to have some of the top bench rest shooters from the worlds . My self and Dan Brown do a lot of work on air rifles . Any one is free to email or call me if they like . Rick
 
Benchmark is the only custom US barrel maker that I know of that makes an air rifle specific barrel, Lilja lists one but I have yet to see one. When you buy a barrel it is a blank and will need to be machined to fit your gun. It is best that the AGS (air gun smith) have your gun in hand to fit the barrel properly.
Custom barrels can be purchased through Lothar. I have made two custom orders from them. The cost is more due to set up fees and possibly special tooling.
To have a custom maker make just one barrel for your gun can be very expensive. The Kreiger barrel that I have cost me $450. The machine work that I did to fit the barrel , if I were to charge for it, would be around $200. After all this there is no guaranty that the barrel will be a shooter.
I have about 16 special Kreiger and Lothar barrels that I expect in by year end. I may also have a quantity of .177 Lilja barrels in my specs as well. If there are extras I will post here.
Dan
 
wow, thanks for all the input guys! well, for me, its a toss up between a BSA blank and a LW, both are competitively priced. THEREALLD: Im not trying to start anything, nor have I been rude. I don't need any rude comments. I'm just trying to get information. My opinion is mine, and no one else's. I know of LW having a few bad batches for the past couple of years, and EVERYONE uses LW, because they pretty much dominate the barrel world for airguns. but im interested in what else is out there. hence why i started the thread. DANB: oouch...i knew that custom barrels would be pricey...but 650? im not saying it wouldnt be worth it, but ouch!
 
If you have a source for BSA give one a try. I have one in .22 that is very good. They are hammer forged btw.
Dan

YEMX said:
wow, thanks for all the input guys! well, for me, its a toss up between a BSA blank and a LW, both are competitively priced. THEREALLD: Im not trying to start anything, nor have I been rude. I don't need any rude comments. I'm just trying to get information. My opinion is mine, and no one else's. I know of LW having a few bad batches for the past couple of years, and EVERYONE uses LW, because they pretty much dominate the barrel world for airguns. but im interested in what else is out there. hence why i started the thread. DANB: oouch...i knew that custom barrels would be pricey...but 650? im not saying it wouldnt be worth it, but ouch!
Click to expand...
 
Dan,

As you are aware, I drew up the specs and facilitated order and payment of the tooling of airgun specific barrels from the Benchmark Co. So far as I know, those specs and barrels are exclusive, and barrels made with them not to be sold except thru Mac1. Benchmark had never made airgun specific barrels prior to my dealings with them. Besides the bore and rifling, my original barrel spec included longer than normal overall length of over 27" to facilitate efficient use at high power for fifty yards and beyond.

Its possible similar arrangements have been made by other airgunners, but from what I've heard, other Benchmark barrels being used in airguns were actually just "tight" rimfire barrels.
 
THEREALLD: Thank you for the work you've done to provide airgunners with an amazing barrel- i've read all i possibly can about them, and they look amazing! I'll be giving Mac1 a call about them as soon as I get back to the States!! DANB: the only source I have for the BSA barrels is dave_424 Over on the TAG forum (talonairguns dot com). very reasonable- $85 for a 24" blank. I've only asked about .22 and .25, but im sure he can get a hold of a .177 if you're so inclined. I dont think they do .20. You'll have to get the blank machined of course. but there's one airgun enthusiast, Jim Gaska (marmotmilitia dot com) that has very very reasonable rates, as long as you can either send him the specs you need, or an action he can match the barrel to. great guy to work with! THEREALLD: what calibers did you work out with Benchmark? just the .22? or did you happen to also work out a .25 as well? thanks again all, so far this has been a very educational thread!!
 
To set the record straight, Benchmark makes an air rifle specific barrel in .22 caliber. What makes it specific to air rifles is the bore and groove diameters. The one I own is a 2 groove configuration with a .213 bore diameter and a .2160, tapering to .2157 groove diameter and is exceptional. Others from the early runs were mediocre at best. Some of these, less than stellar examples, were made into high performers by truly innovative, outside the box thinking. The length is easily duplicated with Benchmark or any other custom barrel manufacturer. I am aware of customers that have acquired the same barrel through sources other than Mac1. While there may have been some exclusivity at one time, it is apparently no longer in place. There is also a .25 caliber air rifle specific barrel, specs done by a more modest individual, and was first available through a group buy. No clear testing has been shared on this barrel.

The .22 caliber barrel has become what many consider a 1st generation air rifle barrel. Some feel that barrels with this much tightness have leading issues and the increased friction makes for air inefficiencies. The standard twist rate may also contribute to overstabilization of our shorter and lighter pellets.

Several other configurations have been used with equal or better results. Twist rates are another proving ground to minimize wobble and corkscrewing at international and longer distances. The rimfire crowd originated the "tight bore" dimensions, approximately .215/.220, and have now moved to minimal engagement with some success, which is what we are seeing with air rifles. Whether we call them "tight bore" rimfire barrel or air rifle barrels is simply semantics and only one person is dislocating their shoulder by patting themselves on the back looking for credit.
 
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Got news for you guys and have to give LD credit due....however to begin to believe that the ultra savy rimfire shooters that migrated into air rifle BR and made this dormant sport work, could not have figured out how to rearrange the bores of air rifle barrels to make them shoot better would be a vast understatement.....It was just a matter of time ............ In case you have not noticed they just love difficulty and a good challenge.
Congratulations to all that made it possible................................Frank
 
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Hi All There is enough credit for every one . There are several people working with custom barrel makers .To my knowledge no one has worked with, and ordered more different boor configurations , and twist rates than Dan Brown . Dan is on the cutting edge of this Air Rifle stuff , and his wife makes one hack of a pasta salad . Rick
 
I could see that all the custom work would get done outside of the established Airgun Industry. The Sport will rocket past the establishment and they won't have a clue what happened. it's those folks such as Rick and Dan and Gordon who will GET ER DONE.
 
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re:

" To set the record straight, Benchmark makes an air rifle specific barrel in .22 caliber. What makes it specific to air rifles is the bore and groove diameters. The one I own is a 2 groove configuration with a .213 bore diameter and a .2160, tapering to .2157 groove diameter and is exceptional. Others from the early runs were mediocre at best. Some of these, less than stellar examples, were made into high performers by truly innovative, outside the box thinking. The length is easily duplicated with Benchmark or any other custom barrel manufacturer. I am aware of customers that have acquired the same barrel through sources other than Mac1. While there may have been some exclusivity at one time, it is apparently no longer in place. There is also a .25 caliber air rifle specific barrel, specs done by a more modest individual, and was first available through a group buy. No clear testing has been shared on this barrel."


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I am quite surprised, and disappointed to read this, but it must be true if you are writing it here.

So apparently, by your words, Benchmark charged me for tooling made to my spec, to be used EXCLUSIVELY for my program, and then began selling barrels made from the exercise to others DESPITE agreeing they would not do this? I guess you are must have strong evidence to support your claim here that Benchmark has been disreputable in their dealing then. I do plan on discussing this with them, and I thank you for bringing this to our attention.
 
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