Where Have All The Shooters Gone?

sorry but i do not see it that way....they are still spend full benchrest money to play a game where they do not compete heads up with everyone else. they only shoot against thier own caliber as all other shoot a DIFFERENT TARGET. how any one can shoot at this match and consider that they are shooting agains all others is beyond me....but think of the down trun of our country.....and this format is no suprise...thing have to be "FAIR"....bs.
mike in co
Tony C said:
My hat's off to UBR. A person with a PPC or factory rifle could jump right in with what they've got. Seems to be a step in the right direction...:)
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That may be the way you see it Mike in Co. or you may be baiting folks with that comment and if you are then I’ll bite.
I agree with Tony C., I enjoy UBR and in our area the UBR matches are well attended with rifles of different classes and calibers, so a person must guess that folks embrace the format.
I have never understood why anyone would attempt to degrade a shooting sport that brings shooters out to compete. So if you don’t like it, then fine, don’t shoot the game but don’t run it down. I’ve never tried” underwater basket weaving” and I don’t think I would enjoy it but if other folks do like it then I’m happy for them. Just rejoice in the fact we live in a Country where we freely have all these choices….especially in our shooting sports.

-H
 
Hope Carleton said:
That may be the way you see it Mike in Co. or you may be baiting folks with that comment and if you are then I’ll bite.
I agree with Tony C., I enjoy UBR and in our area the UBR matches are well attended with rifles of different classes and calibers, so a person must guess that folks embrace the format.
I have never understood why anyone would attempt to degrade a shooting sport that brings shooters out to compete. So if you don’t like it, then fine, don’t shoot the game but don’t run it down. I’ve never tried” underwater basket weaving” and I don’t think I would enjoy it but if other folks do like it then I’m happy for them. Just rejoice in the fact we live in a Country where we freely have all these choices….especially in our shooting sports.

-H
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Hear! Hear!

Now if only rifle guys would quit running down the archery guys would quit dissing the inline muzzleloader guys would stop badmouthing the primitive hunter guys would quit..........well, but then there's golf........

And NASCAR,

and Democrats,

maybe part of the Freedom Of Speech includes the right to pee in others' cheerios???

Nicely of course :)

LOL

al
 
but there is common sense....
a person claims to be a democrate but supports the 2nd ammendment.......
sorry that does not compute........

shooting different calibers at different targets in one match also does not compute.......

it makes no sense....unless one is a democrate and wants the world to be "fair"......

its not shooting i'm picking on its the obsurde idea that three different targets for three calibers in ONE match is some how a 'FAIR" match.

mike in co
 
Mike,
This thread posed the question “where all have the shooters gone”. Tony C. just voiced his opinion, as I did, that he felt like UBR promoted getting shooters into a competitive arena, it is from our observation and experience that we shared the view of UBR being successful in our areas, that was all. From that You somehow decided that UBR is absurd and have drawn a parallel with political parties and their views on constitutional rights ….that is quite a reach. Shooting has no need for the partisanship that exists in Federal and State governments; politicians struggle and fail because of it and the reluctance to work together for the common good. Shooting Sports should not follow their example.

Opinions by Hope
 
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Hope Carleton said:
I have never understood why anyone would attempt to degrade a shooting sport that brings shooters out to compete. So if you don’t like it, then fine, don’t shoot the game but don’t run it down. -H
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Hope, there are those that 'talk the talk' and those that 'walk the walk'.

The 'talkers' sit safely behind their keyboards and bloviate, pontificate, try to legislate (and doubtless other '..ates'). They pronounce about things they've never done, places they've never been and goals they've never achieved. Identifying a 'talker' is easy as their m.o. is always the same: they are the only ones doing things correctly and they have an answer for everything.

You're a 'walker'....a person that actually goes out there and competes. :cool:

Good shootin' my friend. :) -Al
 
Mike,
I guess being from such a primitive place with primitive ways that you wouldn't understand the concept that the love of firearms, target shooting, hunting etc...do not always follow political parties, such as "Democrats hate the shooting and hunting sports". Kentucky is a vastly Democratic State that votes D in most local elections, but tries to vote for the best candidate in national elections. Many of the State DOMOCRATS have worked very hard in Kentucky to promote our concealed carry laws...some of them at the forefront of new legislation!
UBR (Ultimate Benchrest) has absolutely nothing to do with political party affiliation nor is there much politics discussed at our matches...just like at any other shooting event.
For you to talk down your nose about a shooting sport that a. you know nothing about and b. was designed to bring in more shooters rather than to make it "fair for all" just show the rest of us that it is you that is the narrow thinker, the closed minded person. We that participate in UBR (mostly in a small geographic area) have a lot of fun...especially participating with other friends that choose not to get a second mortgage on their house or that choose not to fiddle with their rifle and loads in the big boy class...do come on out and participate with their varmint rifles and fun guns and we all have a good time and eat hotdogs together and laugh and cut up with one another and have FUN and enjoyment of shooting together doing something that we all enjoy.
UBR was designed to make the sport "fair to all" only in the aspect of caliber fairness. Go to an IBS score match and you darn well beter be shooting a 30 caliber rifle in order to "compete" almost regardless of skill. Some don't enjoy shooting a 30 caliber for various reasons...so UBR is an alternative that many who wouldn't even own a 30 BR can enjoy, they can shoot a match on Saturday and go groundhog hunting on Sunday with the same rifle...How unique is that concept?...Mr Mike in Colorado. How about laughing and having fun at a benchrest match, How unique is that? I suspect you wouldn't have any idea though, not competing in benchrest yourself...just standing on the edges making fun of everyone elses ideas of what we enjoy...and bringing politics into a game where they don't belong.
Hope Carlton is one of the nicest, friendliest people that you would ever want to meet...and personally I don't care what his political party affiliation is...I enjoy the fellowship of him and the rest of the people that enjoy shooting UBR, or IBS or NBRSA...
You see Mike in Co. that is what the shooting sports are about...fun and fellowship with your peers in the sport along with some competition as well...not having the deepest pockets or having the most expensive rifle...just having fun and doing the best you can with what you've got. After all, when you go on from this earth...do you really think anyone will care whether you were the best or not, or if you had the best equipment or not...I don't think so
Mark Ray

mike in co said:
but there is common sense....
a person claims to be a democrate but supports the 2nd ammendment.......
sorry that does not compute........

shooting different calibers at different targets in one match also does not compute.......

it makes no sense....unless one is a democrate and wants the world to be "fair"......

its not shooting i'm picking on its the obsurde idea that three different targets for three calibers in ONE match is some how a 'FAIR" match.

mike in co
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mr al n is one of those that believes that if one does not shoot br with a NATIONAL org, you are not a comnpetitor. i have been shooting since i was 9, competing since the early 80's. i still shoot and compete. the only nationa level i do is 1000yd br, all else is club level.
say what you may, the democratic party is anti gun, the leader of this country is anti gun, he clearly stated he would 'WORK AROUND THE SECOND AMMENDMENT AND THE HELLER DECISION".
i have nothing wrong with voting for the best canidate, i do not understand how a gun person can belong to the party that is trying its best to eliminate gun ownershhip. just because the local guy supports gun rights does not change that fact.
just like shooting three different targets with three different calibers makes no sense to me.
let us drop this as its is getting into the forbidden topics...
mike in co
 
mike in co said:
mr al n is one of those that believes that if one does not shoot br with a NATIONAL org, you are not a comnpetitor. i have been shooting since i was 9, competing since the early 80's. i still shoot and compete. the only nationa level i do is 1000yd br, all else is club level.
say what you may, the democratic party is anti gun, the leader of this country is anti gun, he clearly stated he would 'WORK AROUND THE SECOND AMMENDMENT AND THE HELLER DECISION".
i have nothing wrong with voting for the best canidate, i do not understand how a gun person can belong to the party that is trying its best to eliminate gun ownershhip. just because the local guy supports gun rights does not change that fact.
just like shooting three different targets with three different calibers makes no sense to me.
let us drop this as its is getting into the forbidden topics...
mike in co
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The pertinent question is, have you shot even one UBR match? Answer if you want, but we already know the answer.
 
Mike, at your age, there is a whole lot about politics and the ways of people that you seemingly have trouble wrapping your head around...but you tried to denigrate a very good person and a recent friend of mine (through UBR matches) who really does get out from behind his computer and competes and I'm just not going to sit idly by and read that kind of bull biscuits. If and until you actually try real BR and not internet br shooting...I...well...nuff said!
 
Pete Wass
Pete the shooters are out there but nobody is promoting our sport.I will be bringing a new shooter to the upcoming nationals who will be competing with my rifles.
Lynn
 
its the economy.
i'm in the shooting sports biz......
its been flat for two years...just after the obama gun buying boom, things went down hill quickly.
now since december, people are spending money again ..on guns and ammo...big time.
not high end guns,not toys, but practical guns and lots of ammo. i typically sell out of 45 acp, 7.62x39 and 223/5.56 every weekend.
( there are two basic groups of shooters, reloaders and ammo buyers.
when times are tight, there is no budget for reloaders, but
ammo buyers just buy less..they do not stop buying.
today my reloading supplies sell slow, ammo sells hot...)
miike in co
 
You never know when a fellow might show up with a 6mm Remington ground hog rifle at a match of some sort and a welcoming crowd. He might just go on to become one of the greatest BR shooters of all time.:eek:

There was a fun shoot in North Carolina a few years ago. All I had at the time was a Savage 22 BR and no wind flags. But I had a great time! I bugged the heck out of ole Roger Haney for months via email. Met a lot of good folks along the way.
 
Within the contents of this thread there are a lot of good comments so there has to be some answers to the issue of how to introduce new shooters. I know what got me interested was a simple informal club shoot that was shot with factory rifles. Once bitten by the “accuracy bug” then Benchrest seemed to be a natural progression. But let’s face it, there are some shooters that are either not susceptible to be bitten by the “bug” or it is not in their nature to compete…as someone said earlier in this thread there is not a shortage of shooters but a shortage of competitors in our game. Just think how many of us were/are involved in other forms of competition… I think you first and foremost must be a competitor.
I opine that a shooting game that has a class crafted around a factory rifles may be the answer. I will add that drafter of UBR included a sanctioned factory class to accommodate beginning shooters and that is part of its popularity. I think this same thing has been said before, Factory Class is one of the answers but how to pin down what would constitute a Factory Class rifle seems to be the hurdle. Club matches do it and I think other large organization could do it. Even if there is a “stumble” along the way, to become stagnant in our thoughts is an acceptance of the status quo.
As far as costs go, I have observed that people will always try and find funds for recreation, in the case of beginners to a sport the more economical the better but not an absolute prerequisite. It is human nature to seek some relaxation and refuge from work.
To everyone that has followed this thread and contributed, I apologize for my part in getting this topic off track. I think I got “baited” into responding about a shooting venue I enjoy and because “this ain’t my first rodeo” ,I sort’a knew what would follow….

Mark and Al, I appreciate your kind words and support.
-H
 
Factory Class Any rifle with production of, unaltered with the exception of glass bedding and trigger work.
No electronic triggers, weighing X pounds with a scope of X magnification, not to exceed X magnification.
Weight not to exceed X pounds. Sound familiar?
 
factory bbl with factory chamber factory trigger factory stock.
bedding allowed, trgger work allowed
any scope any power( we do run a hunter class with a 6x limit)

the problem is cost......more money buys a better 'factory" rifle......
an option is to make it a "spec" class...........all savage 223 of x model, or 308 or what ever.
becomes a shooter/loader class.....

mike in co
 
Toyed around with an idea some time ago...Bill Wynne too...

Never did do it but I'm convinced that it would work well based on the previously mentioned experience with the "loaner" deal. I was gonna cook up a website and solicit clubs to come up with an equipment loan that could be reserved from the website. Basically, anyone interested could look up the closest club, see what the club had to offer and if so inclined reserve the stuff for a scheduled match. Would be easy for a few established competitors to put together enough stuff to support an individual or maybe two. I had four using the same stuff at the nationals one year. Three of those fellows became avid competitors and I think the other is in a Mexican jail by choice. One of them finished the match with his own stuff he purchased right there.

We could spam all the shooting related websites to advertise!!! Any organization that has a publication or website or both would have no choice but to include a blurb for us. Otherwise we would rag them to death...not me but I know folks that would...:)

The only way such a deal could be sustained is with club member committment and that's a tough commodity.
 
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That da** loaner rifle

Wilbur said:
Never did do it but I'm convinced that it would work well based on the previously mentioned experience with the "loaner" deal. I was gonna cook up a website and solicit clubs to come up with an equipment loan that could be reserved from the website. Basically, anyone interested could look up the closest club, see what the club had to offer and if so inclined reserve the stuff for a scheduled match. Would be easy for a few established competitors to put together enough stuff to support an individual or maybe two. I had four using the same stuff at the nationals one year. Three of those fellows became avid competitors and I think the other is in a Mexican jail by choice. One of them finished the match with his own stuff he purchased right there.

We could spam all the shooting related websites to advertise!!! Any organization that has a publication or website or both would have no choice but to include a blurb for us. Otherwise we would rag them to death...not me but I know folks that would...

The only way such a deal could be sustained is with club member committment and that's a tough commodity.
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Yea, I was one of the ones that Wilbur hooked with that "loaner rifle" that he had years ago. ***** I will never forgive him !! **** It was at a local match and there were a couple more that are still still shooting that used that rifle during that time. All I can say is that it worked.:p
 
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