Tuners some info.

Upandcoming
If your shooting a bigger barrel and don'r have enough weight on the end of it you'll never be able to tune it with a tuner.It will act like it wants to tune but it won't be consistant.
Even with a tuner that is out in front of the muzzle if you don't have enough weight it will act lazy or non-responsive as you go in and out on the weight.
I had tuner bodies made from 1.5 inches out in front of the muzzle to 5 inches and 2.5--3.0 inches seem to work the best for my guns.
Hopefully Gene will come on and tell you specifically about his type of tuner.
Waterboy aka Lynn
 
Boyd Allen said:
but for most of us, that shoot more conventional stocks, keeping a rifle within weight and in balance, with a tuner on board is a situation where every added oz. of tuner weight requires a reduction somewhere else on the rifle. A different design problem than is posed by even the lightest class in long range BR. Wouldn't you agree?
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Boys, the point Lynn is trying to get across is correct. As to tuning a Varmint/Sporter Class 10.5 pound gun and keeping in weight the barrel must be turned like rimfire shooters do. It takes about 11oz minimum to really stabilize a 4.5-5.5 pound barrel that is in the 20"-22" length range.

10.5# LV with standard fiberglass stock and Leupold Competition scope.
1zvga5i.jpg

Barrels used during the 2005 tuner test season. Note the then IBS required design tuners on some.
161naxs.jpg
 
Jerry,
Very interesting. I have to smile when I see the stepped contours on your barrels, since that is the way that I took weight off of one to compensate for the weight of a tuner myself. Later, I came to the conclusion that for a couple of reasons, it is the way to go. I see that you tried several contours. Which worked the best? Is your rifle balanced to be shot free recoil? About where is the balance point, relative to the front of the action? What level of accuracy improvement have you seen compared to the same rifle without a tuner?

Lynn,
In the past, a couple of shooters had published accounts of using contours, and tuners that were virtually the same as were being used successfully in rimfire. For them, it did not work. I think that a CF tuner barrel can be more flexible than the usual used without a tuner, but needs to be quite a bit stiffer than what works for rimfire. Jerry's pictures and information are new data for me and of great interest.
 
Boyd Allen said:
Jerry,
Very interesting. I have to smile when I see the stepped contours on your barrels, since that is the way that I took weight off of one to compensate for the weight of a tuner myself. Later, I came to the conclusion that for a couple of reasons, it is the way to go. I see that you tried several contours. Which worked the best? Is your rifle balanced to be shot free recoil? About where is the balance point, relative to the front of the action? What level of accuracy improvement have you seen compared to the same rifle without a tuner?

.
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Boyd, those are Mauser steps, developed by Peter Paul Mauser on his bolt action rifles in the 1800's. His intent was to reduce weight the soldier had to carry yet keep an accurate rifle.

I never really tried to determine if one contour was beter than another, the rimfire guys have put a lot of work in that subject though, reverse taper, etc.

I was just trying to get rid of enough weight to make LV. I did prove to myself that barrels can be turned after they are finished and still not loose accuracy.
 
Gene B I was surprised you hung in there as long as you did with Mrs Paceil as he surely doesn't have any of the traits of any true gentleman I have ever met unlike yourself. He reminds me of a fellow I know in the Schuetzen game and the know it all on their forum. All though he himself has no personal competitive accomplishments / winning matches and has been competing since 1985 he has this over whelming knowledge base on what it takes to accomplish what he himself has yet to do in the past 20 plus years all based on anything but practical and hard earned experiance brought about by extensive experimentation / testing and countless hours spent at the range as I have done for the past 15 years. Sad thing is he has quite a following of which he now has headed In the opposite direction of what it takes to achieve any viable degree of competitve success in that shooting game. From ballistics interior and exterior to bullets and beyond he knows it all based on his per-say exstensive education and inflated ego lacking any and all practical real life experiences as he continues his 20 plus year loosing streak.
 
Louis.J said:
Gene B I was surprised you hung in there as long as you did with Mrs Paceil as he surely doesn't have any of the traits of any true gentleman I have ever met unlike yourself. He reminds me of a fellow I know in the Schuetzen game and the know it all on their forum. All though he himself has no personal competitive accomplishments / winning matches and has been competing since 1985 he has this over whelming knowledge base on what it takes to accomplish what he himself has yet to do in the past 20 plus years all based on anything but practical and hard earned experiance brought about by extensive experimentation / testing and countless hours spent at the range as I have done for the past 15 years. Sad thing is he has quite a following of which he now has headed In the opposite direction of what it takes to achieve any viable degree of competitve success in that shooting game. From ballistics interior and exterior to bullets and beyond he knows it all based on his per-say exstensive education and inflated ego lacking any and all practical real life experiences as he continues his 20 plus year loosing streak.
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Louis, actions and results say more than words. A wise man pays more attention to what people do than to what they say. :cool:

Good shootin' !

Gene Beggs
 
Gene, my creed has always been, "don't trust anything until it proves its self under match conditions"

I have had a few good ideas that have stood the test.........but I also have a whole closet full of ideas and items that seemed like a good thing, but just didn't work out.:rolleyes:
 
jackie schmidt said:
Gene, my creed has always been, "don't trust anything until it proves its self under match conditions"

I have had a few good ideas that have stood the test.........but I also have a whole closet full of ideas and items that seemed like a good thing, but just didn't work out.:rolleyes:
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You're right Jackie. Competition quickly separates the wheat from the chaff. :p

Good ideas? :eek: I often laugh when I look back on some of my seemingly good ideas that didn't work out. But that's part of the fun, isn't it? If you only have a closet full of such, you've done very well.

Look forward to seeing you around this year. Best of luck to you in your matches. Don't forget us in Midland.

Gene Beggs
 
Gene Beggs said:
You're right Jackie. Competition quickly separates the wheat from the chaff. :p

Good ideas? :eek: I often laugh when I look back on some of my seemingly good ideas that didn't work out. But that's part of the fun, isn't it? If you only have a closet full of such, you've done very well.

Look forward to seeing you around this year. Best of luck to you in your matches. Don't forget us in Midland.

Gene Beggs
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Gene, it's a really BIG closet:D
 
I think I agree regarding the weight

Lynn said:
Upandcoming
If your shooting a bigger barrel and don'r have enough weight on the end of it you'll never be able to tune it with a tuner.It will act like it wants to tune but it won't be consistant.
Even with a tuner that is out in front of the muzzle if you don't have enough weight it will act lazy or non-responsive as you go in and out on the weight.
I had tuner bodies made from 1.5 inches out in front of the muzzle to 5 inches and 2.5--3.0 inches seem to work the best for my guns.
Hopefully Gene will come on and tell you specifically about his type of tuner.
Waterboy aka Lynn
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I found I could tune an HV tapered barrel with three OZ. but the tune was fleeting as ambient conditions changed. Why I quit them.

Pete
 
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