Trouble maybe

T

tate

Guest
Well I dont know how this is goin to work out but i'm thinking that there is going to be hell to pay.Well I decided to buy a benchrest rifle off from this site a week ago an everything was goin great until today.Got a call from the guy that I bought it from stating that it was now in the hands of the virginia state police,because of the way he was shipping it.He was tring to shipp it directly to me instead of goin through a FFL which I thought was legal just had to regerster the weapon once you got it so I guees that im to blame to,ignorance of the law dont count on this one.So I guees what im asking is do you all think im screwed,by that im meaning will I ever see my rifle.I havent been contacted by any of the law inforcement offices yet an dont know if I will.An he also told me that he got busted for tring to shipp powder an primers with out a hasmat,which I know some of the folks on here have done an got away with.Should be hearing from him tonight after he goes an see's the police an gets everything worked out.I hope.
 
tate

I'd say that the other guy is screwed. And he owes you a refund. Of course, if he gets in big trouble and refuses to refund, then you're both screwed. I hope you sent him a US Postal Money Order.

I collect cartridges and guys are constantly wanting to send live cartridges to me through the USPS. I always tell them, "DONT DO IT." You might get away with it 100 times but it only takes getting caught one time.:eek:

The same goes for guys wanting to send firearms across State lines.

JMHO

Good Luck.

Ray
 
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It is on the shipper to make sure he ships legally. Without an FFL to receive, he broke the law. You will probably get screwed with no refund, the rifle is probably forfeit.

Mike
 
If you bought a rifle from someone off of this site I doubt very seriously you will get screwed!

While I certainly don't suggest or condone anything illegal, if he had your friends/dealers FFL it would have been a fairly easy mistake for an old fart to ship to the wrong address. :rolleyes:
 

I've amended this post, addendum at bottom. I've left my post unchanged in the interest of continuity (and to teach myself not to spout without backup!! :D BUT IT'S GOT SOME BAD INFORMATION!)



Original post:


There is more to this story :rolleyes: something Whacky-Poooh here. It's perfectly legal to ship guns between private parties without an FFL. I've often shipped guns to and from dealers for work, and to friends without an FFL.

When a party wishes to hunt or to compete in another state he can ship his guns ahead to a friend or family member. You can send your firearms ahead to a hunting lodge or to a guide service. (point is, it doesn't have to be family)

Now, the question of how you perform a "sale" or a transaction is up to the parties involved..... but there have been a lot of rifles given to friends, guides, private parties from one end of the states to another. IMO there is NO FFL NEEDED for private party sale of long guns.

Unless someone can show me a cite, show me clear ATF verbiage to the effect that long guns can't be sold privately WITHOUT AN FFL I can't believe all this. STATE ruling maybe??

Someone please SHOW ME where it's illegal for two consenting adults to trade money for longguns anywhere in America (except maybe the states of Mass and NY!!)



And about ammo..... there ain't NO rules......I can buy loaded ammo from Cabela's or Midway fer cryin' out loud! You tellin' me none a ya's have ever ordered ammunition?


http://www.att-tactical.com/att_nfa.html

Cheechako, scroll down to section "federal gun laws" to read "The 1986 law made the purchase of ammunition and gun components by mail legal, as it had been prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968."


Waiting for correction........

al



WELLLL, thanks to the posts by the others.... HERE'S SOME CORRECTION :)

ATF website link below will answer all questions posed. (and show some of my information to be flawed...)

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm


Sorry tate, please accept my apologies for dragging this thread off on a tangent :eek: in your case I think you'll have to just let it play out. The act of shipping/receiving seems pretty well spelled out by the BATFE.
 
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It boggles the mind how much this gets discussed and how many people have it wrong.

Unfortunately the people that have it wrong are very persuasive :rolleyes:
 
al is right about the firearm transfers between private parties. It does not require and ffl transfer. On the ammo shipping. The post office has it's own rules and there is a no, no with the post office clearly posted in each post office. If you are talking about handgun transfers and shipping through the post office, that's a different kettle of fish. Again the post office does not allow for shipping, period. You have to go through a private carrier.

Why would you get a call from the cops? You didn't ship. Besides this is a federal issue, not left up to locale cops.
 
However

The state of California requires ALL sales of firearms, including long guns to be through a FFL, pay the DRO's and wait 10 days. You can "give" only to/from Parent-Son-Daughter. For every one else it's a transfer. There may be other states with restrictions also.
 
Thanks guys for the replies.All I know is what I was told that he went to a ups store an had it boxed up with the bolt in another box,an when he was asked what was in the box an told the I guees thats when all hell broke loose.I know when I shipped my other rifle out to hart I was told that I could shipp it to them with out a ffl.
 
Al

Firearms and ammo are two different things. And buying and shipping are likewise two different things.

You can buy ammo and/or components via any method you choose. Bullets and Empty brass can go USPS. You cannot ship loaded ammo, primed cases, primers, or powder via USPS. They go UPS Ground ORM-D only. Primers and/or powder requires a HAZMAT fee, but ironically loaded ammo does not.

You cannot ship loaded ammo, primers, primed cases or powder overseas (including Canada). Everything has to be inert. Even shipping inert to and from Canada is still questionable because Canada Post prohibits "Inert Munitions" and they refuse to define what "Inert Munitions" are. Some countries prohibit certain bullets (AP, API, etc).

You can buy rifles and shotguns by any meathod you choose (mail, Internet, phone, etc). Rifles and shotguns can be shipped via USPS and UPS across State lines to yourself (hunting, etc) or to a gunsmith for work. But, I've always understood that you could not ship to another person. If I'm wrong about that it would be great. When I wanted to send my son some rifles, to Alaska, I was told by the PHX office of BATF&E that I could only send them to an FFL in Alaska.

Can you quote me the BATF&E regulations that specifically address shipping a rifle or shotgun to another individual?

This comes up more often than moly vs naked. You'd think we were all clear on it by now.

Ray
 
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Al,

The site you referenced is NOT a BATF website. It is owned by ATT Tactical, whoever that is.
I'd go to the BATF.gov website and read real close on interstate shipment of firearms.
I won't get into a pissing contest over this but I think it is best to only ship TO current FFL holders and do not have a problem doing that.

We have too much fun with our rifles to get busted from doing something dumb that has no upside to choosing that route.

Opinions of one,

Jay, Idaho

P.S. Everybody on here should have read "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross, at least one time. Buy two copies and have one loaned out to friends as much as possible.
 
could have sworn that across state lines purchase requires ffl on recieving end (any firearm) since 1968. Depending on your state law, instate purchase may not. Your state law may require you to ship through a ffl also. You may ship any firearm to a gunsmith for repair or custom work and does not require a ffl to be shipped back to you. Lately there have been some gray areas on the smith end as to weather or not he/she must have a class 2 ffl for smithing work, some of this ATF some IRS. Loaded ammo does/did not require hazmat but powder or primers due and can not be packaged together, if I remember correctly 4 8lb jugs is max for one package. powder and primers are classed as explosives, loaded ammo was not. Some of what I remember may have changed with 911 and Homeland security as I closed shop about 1990
 
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Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
 
I'd guess that the guy who was shipping the rifle to Tate had done the same thing before and had not been caught. As I said, you only have to get caught once.

It's surprising to me that even some licensed dealers will skirt the law, risking their license, their livihood, and their freedom. Some years ago a gunsmith, lets say he lived in Washington;), had a rifle I was interested in. I called him and asked how much he wanted, etc, etc. I told him I might be interested and that I'd get the local gun shop to send a copy of their FFL. He said, "Oh, don't worry about that. I'll send it directly to you. If anyone asks, you tell them it was your rifle that you had sent to me repairs." Like I was going to lie to cover his a$$. No way Jose. Leavenworth is too cold in the winter for me.:rolleyes:

Ray
 
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Dusty

Are you positive of that? I'd check the regs. Call a dealer in another state and ask if he'll ship a rifle to you.

Ray
 
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off topic but...

Jay said:
Al,
P.S. Everybody on here should have read "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross, at least one time. Buy two copies and have one loaned out to friends as much as possible.
Click to expand...

Totally agree Jay, I gave away 5 copies after reading it the first time. Great Book and a must read!
 
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