Trouble maybe

Cheechako

Ray
I just bought a Rimrock action from Jim Borden and in California it has to go to a FFL license holder from a FFL license holder.Once it is at my FFL holders house the paper work needs to be done before the 10 day mandatory wait even starts.If my FFL gets it in on a monday and I don't do the paperwork until the following saturday the 10 day waiting period would start on that saturday and not the previous monday.
Once the waiting period is over I can send it back to Jim using the regular postal service.
Any and all guns sold to californians go FFL to FFL.
To get a 50 bmg action into California even if it is going to be used for a 50 spotter tracer or 510 DTC round is all but impossible.No FFL on this end wants anything to do with anything.
Lynn
 
Lynn

Jim Borden is a nit-picker. Always worried about little details.;) Tell him to send it to your house and everything will be OK. Or, have him ship everything to me and I'll be sure to give it to you next time you catch me. :rolleyes:

Ray
 
alinwa said:
There is more to this story :rolleyes: something Whacky-Poooh here. It's perfectly legal to ship guns between private parties without an FFL. I've often shipped guns to and from dealers for work, and to friends without an FFL.

When a party wishes to hunt or to compete in another state he can ship his guns ahead to a friend or family member. You can send your firearms ahead to a hunting lodge or to a guide service. (point is, it doesn't have to be family)

Now, the question of how you perform a "sale" or a transaction is up to the parties involved..... but there have been a lot of rifles given to friends, guides, private parties from one end of the states to another. IMO there is NO FFL NEEDED for private party sale of long guns.

Unless someone can show me a cite, show me clear ATF verbiage to the effect that long guns can't be sold privately WITHOUT AN FFL I can't believe all this. STATE ruling maybe??

Someone please SHOW ME where it's illegal for two consenting adults to trade money for longguns anywhere in America (except maybe the states of Mass and NY!!)



And about ammo..... there ain't NO rules......I can buy loaded ammo from Cabela's or Midway fer cryin' out loud! You tellin' me none a ya's have ever ordered ammunition?


Al,
You need to check with the ATF on what you think is right because your way off base and the ATF ain't who you want to monkey with, they've got a book that explains a lot of this shipping BS, (ATF publication 5300.4), take it from me they're nice people till ya piss them off then life is living hell,,,,,,

the wind is my friend,,,,,,,,,,,

DD
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Cheechako

Ray
The ATF quit sending out the big manuals this year and instead put it all on a CD for your computor.The last book I have shows alot of the smaller rural states having less than 1 page of regulations.

California all by itself has 58 or 60 pages of rules and New York is a close second.

I shoot with these guys on a regular basis but the rules are changing so fast they want all of the details well in advance before they will fax a license to anyone.We are paying $100 for a Ruger 10/22 transfer out here now.
Lynn
P.S. You should have shot with us at The Mirage Nationals.
 
if the gun has never been registered it must pass from an FFL to owner with all checks according to state laws. so let's say I buy a brand new action from brunos. he ships it to my FFL and he does the paperwork on me. then I need to send it to a gunsmith for work. I ship directly to him, he logs it in, fixes it, logs it out and send it directly to me. so FFL on one end of used guns, FFL on all ends of new guns until the owner passes the paperwork. this does not apply to Ca, or any other left wing inspired state or any other country with customs involved. if ever in doubt ship it to an FFL only and let them log it so they take the heat on the laws. I promise they will know the law if they do this alot.
 
An FFL in CA can legally (CA regulations) accept a rifle or action from a non-FFL in another state. Of course, a lot of FFL licensees are a bit fuzzy on the regs or prefer to only operate FFL to FFL so it becomes a discretionary thing with each CA Dealer. That is their choice and their right. They lose fees but probably sleep better.

Jay, Idaho
 
Dusty Stevens said:
if the gun has never been registered it must pass from an FFL to owner with all checks according to state laws. so let's say I buy a brand new action from brunos. he ships it to my FFL and he does the paperwork on me. then I need to send it to a gunsmith for work. I ship directly to him, he logs it in, fixes it, logs it out and send it directly to me. so FFL on one end of used guns, FFL on all ends of new guns until the owner passes the paperwork. this does not apply to Ca, or any other left wing inspired state or any other country with customs involved. if ever in doubt ship it to an FFL only and let them log it so they take the heat on the laws. I promise they will know the law if they do this alot.
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Dusty,

Firearms here in America do not need to be registered EXCEPT in certain states and municipal areas.

If you believe that there's a federal "registration" database where all new guns are listed you'll have to show me a cite.

Logging a new action via Form 4473 is not registration. It IS NOT accessible by our government without a search warrant.

If I'm wrong, show me please. :)


ALL new actions whether sold in state or out of state must be logged by a licensed dealer and may ONLY be sold through a licensed dealer.


al
 
I was uninformed. I think that you can find all that you need to know here.

It looks as though it IS NOT LEGAL to transfer long guns across state lines without an FFL on one end or the other.

This info is from the BATFE website.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm



B. UNLICENSED PERSONS

(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]




It's the last paragraph in B16 that could get sticky......

(B16) What record-keeping procedures should be followed when two private individuals want to engage in a firearms transaction? [Back]

When a transaction takes place between private (unlicensed) persons who reside in the same State, the Gun Control Act (GCA) does not require any record keeping. A private person may sell a firearm to another private individual in his or her State of residence and, similarly, a private individual may buy a firearm from another private person who resides in the same State. It is not necessary under Federal law for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or transfer when the buyer and seller are "same-State" residents. Of course, the transferor/seller may not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited persons contained in the GCA. See 18 U.S. C. §§ 922(g) and (n). However, as stated above, there are no GCA-required records to be completed by either party to the transfer.

There may be State or local laws or regulations that govern this type of transaction. Contact State Police units or the office of your State Attorney General for information on any such requirements.

Please note that if a private person wants to obtain a firearm from a private person who resides in another State, the firearm will have to be shipped to an FFL in the buyer's State. The FFL will be responsible for record keeping. See also Question B3.


I hope this is helpful


My first post contains inaccurate information.


al
 
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you can also ship a gun to yourself in another state (you must be the one to open the package), this is how you send a rifle ahead for a hunting trip. if shipping to someone else, the reciever needs an FFL.
 
Cheechako said:
Lynn

Jim Borden is a nit-picker. Always worried about little details.;) Tell him to send it to your house and everything will be OK. Or, have him ship everything to me and I'll be sure to give it to you next time you catch me. :rolleyes:

Ray
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He may be a Nit Picker but he is running a fair sized business and has his whole families livelihood on the line. You will not find him intentionally breaking any Federal laws or even stretching them.

Dick
 
ok Al. shouldn't have said registered. what I meant was the paperwork you must fill out that makes sure you're not a felon or on drugs. the serial # is on there and must be turned over to the ATF when asked for or when the FFL goes out of business. not really a registration yet.
 
Alinwa

Al
I think we need to kow which states are involved here.Like I said some have almost no federal rules at all while california and new york take up the lions share of the book.
Also I think the states regulations are whats the problem here.He was talking about the local police and not the ATF.He might have broken some Interstate Commerce Law or a shipping regulation.
We don't have federal registration in place but I'm pretty sure in california we have state registration because they are always giving us deadlines to complete our registrations by and outright bans even on ammuition.Its a pretty lousy state gun wise.
You should move here and help us out.You could be known as AlinCa.
Lynn
 
Lynn said:
Al
You should move here and help us out.You could be known as AlinCa.
Lynn
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I like "AlinCal" but I'm pretty sure it ain't never going to happen. It just has a ring to it, "AlinCal", "AlinCal".

Jay, Idaho
 
Dick Grosbier said:
He may be a Nit Picker but he is running a fair sized business and has his whole families livelihood on the line. You will not find him intentionally breaking any Federal laws or even stretching them.

Dick
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Dick

My comments were tongue in cheek. They were aimed at my friend Lynn. That's why I used the winking smiley face. Jim is a great guy who, I know, would never even bend a law or regulation, much less break one.

Alinwa

If you're still here, I'll be the first to sympathise with you. I hate all the useless rules and regulations as much or more than you or anyone else. There was a time, when I was a lot younger, when I would even break a few in disgust and contempt. But times, they are a changing. It pays anyone with a firearm and ammunition to be aware of what the rules are and only bend or break them at their peril. I'm too old to be someones boy-toy in a Federal lock-up.:eek:

Ray

Ray
 
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Well still havent heard anything yet.Im hoping to hear something today from the guy.If not I dont know what my next move should be,I was hoping to be able to get into this sport but its not looking good right now.
 
My next move would be to talk to the guy and ask for my money back. I hope that works out.
 
Well just talked to my guy an all is good,althought he had to pay a 250.00 fine,which I told him that I would help pay since it is kind of my fault for not realy knowing what the laws are.I guees that it could of been worst I could have my rifle in the hands of the law enforcement oficers an never see it an be out of the money that I spent on it.Hopefully everyone that has read this will learn from what has happened here by not following the laws,because it could have been alot worst on both ends of the deal.I know i've learned.
 
As I read this thread it proved to me one thing about people. No matter how many times a topic is discussed everybody is IGNORANT about the Law of how to ship rifles. We then plead I'm innocent I didn't know. I say B***S*** to all of the concerned parties and others.
There are posts about this issue almost everyday on some gun site. People wake up you are your own worst enemy. And when the anti's see this type of stuff they say I told you so. and We LOSE....
Read and ask questions so you understand the rules and don't get your self into real trouble.
 
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