Thoughts on Benchrest Competition

It all gets easier to read

Go to settings, and to the bottom of the setting list and add a name. Jammer six if you don't like the company here, move on. No one is stopping you from loading with a Dillon. You are just upset cause when you asked a question and got a good answer, and it wasn't the answer you were looking for. I have a Dillon ( even though I am not as sharp as any of these guys on reloading ) I can see the flex built into the shell plate and know that it moves so much match ammo can't come from it. I occasionally shoot a .1 or a .0 group , these guys do it in aggs of 5. That's 5 , 5 shot groups and the average is the group size.
 
Come on jammer. If you look back at the post you got your feathers ruffled over, you asked for info, we gave you the info, you argued, we gave you the info again and you still argued and it was about what WE use and you acted like we were steering you wrong? You asked real BR shooters about equipment a guy thats never shot a group uses then inferred we were wrong? Ive shot everything from pistols to archery all over the country and this group of guys is the only one ive ever left $10,000 worth of stuff layin next to overnite and never lost a single item. Ive seen guys get beat with their own guns cause they loaned em to somebody that broke theirs. All these smart comments you make on all the posts wont get your problems solved. Theres guys all around you that would help you immensely- they probably would have pm'd you already. if they havent id be shocked.
 
classcat said:
WHEN you attend a BENCHREST match you will find out that this Group WILL give you the shirt or Jacket from their back.
Click to expand...

I can attest to this.
Everyone I've met at a match have been willing to help me in anyway they could.
Guys I appreciate all you do on this site and in the field. Keep it up

Thanks
 
Actually, I asked for links, and no one had any, so you all jumped in to give "info" I wasn't interested in.

You all made assumptions, and got annoyed when I ignored them.

What I am willing to believe is that none of you would have acted that way in person. (That's not unusual, but it is sort of sad.)

You're having attendance problems, when this site is the first thing anyone with questions would see, and you would all act differently in person. They see it before they attend a match, and it could easily determine whether or not they attend that first match.

A simple, free solution is staring you in the face, and you refuse to see it because I'm the one who's pointing it out to you.
 
This is an excellent thread and several people have floated good ideas. I have some thoughts on why Benchrest seems to be declining in popularity, though I don't have any good solutions to offer.

I think we should ask what attracts people to Benchrest.

I think that every shooting sport has three components: physical skill, mental skill, and equipment. Jackie said up above that BR is 75% equipment and I agree; it is an equipment driven sport that attracts people who like machinery and like to tinker with it. Probably no surprise that a lot of BR shooters are machinists and/ or people who like to work on cars. Tim Singleton put it well when he said that figuring out how things work keeps him up. That's the mindset that attracts people to BR.

I haven't shot every shooting sport but in the two (beside BR) that I shoot (high power and smallbore), physical skill is the majority component. I think that those sports attract primarily people who are interested in a physically-challenging shooting sport.

I think that what's happening in BR is a reflection of how our society has changed. We've gone from a mostly manufacturing economy to a mostly service economy. Fewer people work with their hands and I guess fewer people are machinery oriented. What percentage of our population still tinkers with their cars or even work on them? Probably a lot smaller percentage than when I was growing up in the 60s.

I realize this sounds pessimistic. I am sorry for that and doubly sorry that I have no solution to offer, but that's how I see it.

Dave Rabin
 
My 2 cents worth

I migrated to Benchrest competition in the late '90's after working with my predator rifles for more and more accuracy. My local range shot in the now defunct TCL Hunter Postal matches and I was encouraged by several locals to come and shoot with them. I got hooked immediately and dove in. Fast forward a few seasons and I was making my own .30 cal. BR bullets, experimenting with different case designs and shooting a Hunter rifle and both a 10.5 and a 13.5 Varmint rifle. I was lucky to have a talented gunsmith (Stan Ware) that would listen to my ideas and work with me on them. People like Randy Robinett took me under their wing and helped me in more ways than I can count. Met a lot of good people, only a few stinkers (they don't stick around long), shot at ranges from South Dakota to New York to Georgia and generally had one hell of a good time! :) I've moved on (actually back to) other competitive endeavors (drag racing) and shot my last registered IBS match in 2013 where I was fortunate enough to win the Two Gun Grand Agg. I figured that wasn't a bad way to end my Benchrest 'career'. ;)

To me, Benchrest wasn't so much about guns, per se. It was the mechanical aspect of making something work better. And the competition. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that not everyone is mentally 'wired' for a competitive sport/hobby of any kind. They look at not winning as losing and take it personally. Their egos get bruised and from there it's just a short walk out the door. You should always go to win but shouldn't expect to win. I figured that I'd shoot my best and at the end of the day let the sheets show me where I ended up. When you lose, examine where things went wrong....and be honest about it. Honest self evaluation is the only way to get better in anything. Competitve shooting is really just between you and the target...not you versus everyone there.

Good shootin'. :) -Al
 
I'm a real new BR shooter, coming from long range F-Class and our Club's 22 bench matches.

Two things caused me to get a BR rifle, the main one was Dusty Stevens and his openness to sharing his sport, and second was the phenomenal accuracy of the 6PPC. Between the two, I have had a great time so far. Due to my other shooting venues, I'm not sure how many BR matches I will shoot but this is a very addictive sport.

Watching a BR match is kind of like watching paint dry. The shooters are concentrating on the match and the watchers are just watching through spotting scopes (hopefully they thought to bring one or someone has lent them one) and giving the shooters the uninterrupted time they deserve and need. Not a real fan sport to me, but as I am into to now it is most interesting to watch the flags and the groups form. But to a new person, I can see how boring it would be.

So, what I would propose to getting more shooters into the sport is to introduce them to BR not at a BR match, but at a local range by letting them shoot a group. I not saying let just anyone shoot your gun, but that is how I got into the sport - having Dusty let me shoot a group with his rifle and his kindness and openness to me.

I think the biggest resistance to getting new shooters is the expense need to be competitive. Maybe a separate class (call it NOVICE?) to allow new shooters be competitive within for the first year wtih a limitation on expensive guns?
 
Jammer makes a good point within this post.

_______________________________


Jammer Six said:
Actually, I asked for links, and no one had any, so you all jumped in to give "info" I wasn't interested in.

You all made assumptions, and got annoyed when I ignored them.

What I am willing to believe is that none of you would have acted that way in person. (That's not unusual, but it is sort of sad.)

You're having attendance problems, when this site is the first thing anyone with questions would see, and you would all act differently in person. They see it before they attend a match, and it could easily determine whether or not they attend that first match.

A simple, free solution is staring you in the face, and you refuse to see it because I'm the one who's pointing it out to you.
Click to expand...
 
Gene, your post is the truth....the absolute truth. Just posted so you'll know somebody agreed.....:)
 
Wilbur said:
Gene, your post is the truth....the absolute truth. Just posted so you'll know somebody agreed.....:)
Click to expand...

Al Nyhus in post 130 above makes a lot of sense to me especially the comment that many folks take not winning as loosing....sound familiar? "Second place is first looser"??



.
 
Benchrest Rifles are no more expensive than any other custom Rifle, or many top end Factory Models for that matter.

And, at any given moment, there are multitudes of used Rifles on the market that will shoot just as well as the new Rifle the seller just put together. We all know that many Benchrest Shooters are slaves to the "new things of the moment". We go into a little slump and start buying everything new because somebody just won a Match with it. We tend to forget the multitudes of sub .200 aggs we shot with that old "junk", and how many wins we garnered with it.

Everybody has to have the latest rest, the latest bag, the latest loading gizmo that might help you knock 1 second off of your shooting time..........only to be beat by some guy with a old Hart rest, a 25 year old bag, and a crusty old Panda in a scratched up old fiberglass stock.

New shooters look at all of this and sure, they say, "I can't afford all of that". But, I guarantee you right now that with a little shopping, starting from scratch, I could put together an entire Equipment List for a Match for less than $5000. That includes a Rifle, Bench Equipment, Windflags, Loading Equipment, Bullets, Primers and Powder and a tank of gas to get there.

Here is a typical used BR Rifle straight from our classifieds. It's just one I picked at random.
http://benchrest.com/class/index.php?a=2&b=9426


Of course, it will all be used. But in Benchrest, more times than not, used does not mean wore out. It means......"wow, He just won the Super Shoot with a new (insert item), I better get one of those".
 
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I would like to hear from

Some of the club members who shoot "Club" matches at clubs that used to host sanctioned matches. The formats they use seem the same as the Sanctioned matches, why did the clubs give up on the sanctioning bodies? I remember shooting at the last IBS Score Match @ Lakeland, Florida. There were 3 of us there and the match director did not shoot! Nice looking club with some of the nicest Benchrest facilities I have seen to date, even had a barrel vice mounted permanently!

Me, I have never seen the sense in shooting in non-sanctioned matches. Never made any sense to me. I don't really like shooting for shooting's sake. Shooting, to me, is a means to an end; namely the competition and it being meaningful.

I switched back to Rimfire several years ago and have sold all but one of my centerfire Benchrest rifles. The Rimfire is more to my liking. I enjoy the low recoil and lack of noise. Everything else is pretty much the same, no less expensive and all of that. I also have quit traveling long distances for "Big Shoots" for the reason AL pointed out. One only competes against themselves and @ age 70, I don't have the stamina to do the marathon driving that I use to.

Thanks,

Pete
 
I just saw this thread. At the IBS we have been grappling theses issues discussed in this thread for a long time. At the moment, I don't have time to give you what we have done to promote BR. Yes, the matches are down in the short-range and probably the 1,000 game. 600 is growing, but slowly.

Attached are three files. The two Excel ones are from a survey we did in 2011 of both benchrest and NON-benchrest shooters. Lots of interesting stuff here.

Jeff

On another note, two years ago I introduced an idea at the IBS Winter Meeting of a fun match at 300 yards, that open to ANY 'bag' gun (no rails) - 6PPCs, 600 yard rifles, 1000 yard rifles, F-class, Egg Shoot, whatever. The idea is to have them go head to head for fun and prizes. The buzz in the room of 100 persons was palpable. I have not been able to get anyone to take it over and do it...anyone listening? I even had Weikert convinced to host it. I simply do not have enough time....I am not retired, serve as IBS President, direct two major trail running events (one with 800 entrants over 28 mile course the other an extreme event in mid-winter) and train for mountaineering (the latter is time consuming for an old fart). I am not totally an idiot; I simply don't have the time to add one more thing to my plate.

The idea of a 300 yard challenge would be a great shot in the arm for the 'benchrest buzz.' At the time, I even talked to Jim Carmichel. He said he would put me in touch with the powers that be at Savage to get a major sponsor. I think it could be a 'big deal'.

If anyone would like to take this on, I will help, but I will not run it. If I could, I would.
 

Attachments

  • SurveySummary_01312011 Non Benchrest Shooters.xlsx
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  • Benchrest Survey Summary_BR Shooters.xlsx
    163.7 KB · Views: 159
  • Benchrest survey responses on how to grow benchrest.docx
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One more thing. The attached is on the IBS web site for downloading. It is a .pdf file that you can print out and post at your local gun club or gun shop....

Shooting disciplines come and go in popularity. Fifteen years ago, there were a number of silhouette shoots in my area. I could not tell you if they are still around or not. Most of those guys are probably shooting tactical or cowboy action by now.

Benchest has one thing that no other discipline has. As the flyer's headline states: "Would You Like To Shoot The Most Accurate Rifles in The World"? That is true. That is our brand. That is what we sell.

jks
 

Attachments

  • Benchrest Flyer 2015.pdf
    479.4 KB · Views: 185
Al Nyhus said:
I migrated to Benchrest competition in the late '90's after working with my predator rifles for more and more accuracy. My local range shot in the now defunct TCL Hunter Postal matches and I was encouraged by several locals to come and shoot with them. I got hooked immediately and dove in. Fast forward a few seasons and I was making my own .30 cal. BR bullets, experimenting with different case designs and shooting a Hunter rifle and both a 10.5 and a 13.5 Varmint rifle. I was lucky to have a talented gunsmith (Stan Ware) that would listen to my ideas and work with me on them. People like Randy Robinett took me under their wing and helped me in more ways than I can count. Met a lot of good people, only a few stinkers (they don't stick around long), shot at ranges from South Dakota to New York to Georgia and generally had one hell of a good time! :) I've moved on (actually back to) other competitive endeavors (drag racing) and shot my last registered IBS match in 2013 where I was fortunate enough to win the Two Gun Grand Agg. I figured that wasn't a bad way to end my Benchrest 'career'. ;)

To me, Benchrest wasn't so much about guns, per se. It was the mechanical aspect of making something work better. And the competition. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that not everyone is mentally 'wired' for a competitive sport/hobby of any kind. They look at not winning as losing and take it personally. Their egos get bruised and from there it's just a short walk out the door. You should always go to win but shouldn't expect to win. I figured that I'd shoot my best and at the end of the day let the sheets show me where I ended up. When you lose, examine where things went wrong....and be honest about it. Honest self evaluation is the only way to get better in anything. Competitve shooting is really just between you and the target...not you versus everyone there.

Good shootin'. :) -Al
Click to expand...

Well stated, Al. As you know, we miss you - and the level at which you kept the bar!:cool:

Though, as usual, "late to the party", my take on [shooter] classification is what I brought from forays into silhouette shooting - both rifle and handgun. After "winning" my initial, "first place" trophy for a low(er) classification, at a handgun event, I didn't like being the best of the mediocre: I never accepted another (WINNER) trophy for less than the best score of the day. In short, I just got better - better yet, I discovered benchrest, which better suited my anal nature.:p

Please, don't take offense, this is just the way my mind works regarding individual classification - I just do not comprehend it.:confused: Those who know me know that I am a gracious loser - that does not mean I like it! ;) RG
 
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Al and Randy,

Good thoughts. We simply don't have enough people at ours shoots to have classifications. The IBS recognizes Rookies, though, and give an annual award for the top one in the various disciplines.
 
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In the hay day period of time for short range benchrest in the late 70s and 80s or when ever it was.
What other forms of organized competition shooting were around? Compared to today
I know service rifle for one
 
Jeff Stover said:
Al and Randy,

Good thoughts. We simply don't have enough people at ours shoots to have classifications. The IBS recognizes Rookies, though, and give an annual award for the top one in the various disciplines.
Click to expand...

This is not a bad policy - we used to do this at the club level .

Having perused some of the previous posts now, I can relate to putting a good rifle in the hands of interested parties - that has been a most effective recruiting tool. At BVI, we've hooked several shooters via that trick.:eek:

Often, potential rivals, shooting their initial BR event, with a decent, but not up to spec. rig, have stated that they aren't, "good enough" to deserve a bench-rest rig. At which point, if I observed any latent talent/determination, they are advised, "if you'll attend our next event, I'll provide a competitive rifle, and all the gear/components - all you need bring is your open mind. ;)

I forgot to add - I also agree with Gene. RG
 
Thoughts on Benchrest competition

I've made some point in my posts I hit a nerve or two also some agree other,s prefer to disagree.

As long as we are on the subject lets really talk about it..
ITS Expensive' Equipment Race
A long Learning Curve
75 % equipment 25% shooting That,s doubtful at best.
Here's a few other things You have to have Eye site and General heath. Full rotation can take it's toll .
You have to be attentive to follow commands . There's more but I don't want to hog all of the facts.

The top shooters like MR T shoot thousands of rounds PRACTICE
The bar has been raised so high Most people can't afford to compete. There,s little reward even to stay in the game.

Some people talk about Nascar racing and try to compare, Your missing something Nascar pays LAP money.
Benchrest has always been the game of Tinkers and inventor,s Trying to get the very best out of their rifles.
IT just match shooting these days. way way different from when I started
 
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