Stock question

Could you

Please clarify the "guiding means".Surely the but stock on a conventional stock is being guided by the bag ears,Seb is merely using a wider but.Is there a convex rule on the butstock.If this 1 is deamed ok,how can the next be un-ok.I believe he is testing the water as he wishes to use this stock at the SS.Is it illegal?
I hope its good by the rules.I'm sure it is legal in Australia.:confused:
Thanks Jim
 
Please clarify the "guiding means".Surely the but stock on a conventional stock is being guided by the bag ears,Seb is merely using a wider but.Is there a convex rule on the butstock.If this 1 is deamed ok,how can the next be un-ok.I believe he is testing the water as he wishes to use this stock at the SS.Is it illegal?
I hope its good by the rules.I'm sure it is legal in Australia.:confused:
Thanks Jim

Depends on the bag/rifle fit and how well it works. Many of the existing "accepted" setups are very near return to battery. Some may actually return..."guiding means" if you will. No sense bantering what is and what ain't. Guiding means is guiding means. If you can pull the rifle back and push it back up to the same point of aim, that's guiding means.

I may have misunderstood the pictures entirely. Looked like the bag fit into the stock in one of the pictures.

"Is it legal ?" will be determined at the time of protest should that occur. If a close call exists it might make sense to have a backup.
 
Rear Bag

In post 39, Seb says that the rear bag will be pretty much a standard rear bag configuration with 3" spacing between the ears.

When everyone now uses a rear bag with ?? 3/8 to 5/8 ?? spacing on the ears, why would 3 inch spacing be any different.

Looks like Seb is trying for stability most of all.

Lets not beat him up until we at least see the finished product on the Bench.

I, for one looking forward to shooting it myself if he will permit me..

K-Gun
 
Last edited by a moderator:
K-Gun,

Are you coming to the SS?
I do not quite understand with what you mean "I, for one looking forward to shooting it myself, if he will permit me"...but if so, and if I correct to assume your last sentence(?), I can tell you that you can try my rifle there! It will be my pleasure (you're welcome!). Anyones can try it too, if you want.

Mr. Wilbur, many thanks for your inputs!
Actually, I hope to get inputs/critisms here - rather than compliments or so.
I do NOT want to break the rules (etc)...and that's why I post about the stock in this forum...asking about the taper, the width of the buttstock etc, in hope to get inputs, and to help me to improve/gain my knowledge.

Since my English is not good (& sometimes I cannot understand what peoples are talking about here DUE to my poor English?), can you tell me more what's wrong with my stock design?
Is it because the bottom part able to be knock down?...*(if so, I still can glue it/fix)
Is it because the buttstock in "U" shape, not flat?...*(if so, I still can make it flat)
Is it because the buttstock in 3" wide?....*(if so, I also made 1/2" flat bottom part instead of the 3", and can/will use it)
Is it because the rifle would (probably) have a better return to battery? or would be better to resist torque because of the wider butt?...*if this is the case, I can/will use the 1/2" flat bottom part instead of the 3".

Or, is it because of the bag would have 3" spacing between the ears?
As mentioned before, the rear bag would be just the same with my bigfoot bag (or other bags in the market), ONLY with 3" spacing between the ears. No more. --- Is this a problem/illegal?

Again, I'm just a newbie, and always need inputs....and I do not want to break the rules or so.
All is just my effort to have a stock that looks different. No more.

Your inputs will be much appreciated!

Many thanks in advance,
seb.
 
Last edited:
Seb

I have no idea what you IQ might be, but I have a feeling that you have about 20 points on many of us.
As for your stock, I see nothing that would render the first one illegal. Sure, that old thing of guiding means comes up, but that is easy to check. Just have the shooter sit down at the bench and shoot a group, without looking through the scope after the first shot.
As for the barrel block on that one example, I see it as possibly violating the rules concering barrel blocks, sleeves fixtures, attachments, etc, as described in the rule book. There are a few examples of these being shot, and trust me, everyone will humor the builder, and say how neat it is, untill they actaully win something, as in a Region Level Championship. That is not the time to find out that what has been created is not within the rules.
Of course, you could always call it a "tuner".
I get tired of shooters always bringing up this old crap of how Benchrest is stifling creativity. Our antiquated rules??. That is a bunch of BS. Heck, just look at what we are using now, whether it be a Robertson BRX or a Scoville. These are way out on the fringe as to what the old puritist would describe as a 'Rifle Stock".
This arguement has been going on for decades. I have mentioned before that I have an article from the 1971 addition of the Shooters Digest. It has an article about "these new fangled Benchrest Rifles that defy tradition". One of the chief culprits in promoting this heresy is none other than a young shooter named Ed Shilen. The cry then was, "we need to draw a line in the sand, NOW". They might have drawn a line, but we keep moving it.
While I do not disagree with Wilbur very often, I would see your design as meeting muster. As I said, it is quite easy to determine if a design incorporates a true return to battery feature. The key phrase in that rule is the part that refers to not having to optically re-aim the Rifle after each shot. Your design looks good, but I doubt you could sit down and fire a competitive 5-shot group without having to re-aim after each shot.
But then, he is a Region Director. All I am is a shooter who likes to talk a lot.........jackie
 
Last edited:
nice looking stock SEB

If it is illegal please do not donate it to a BR museum but sell it to a poor canuck needing more toys to play with in his time of depression.:(:(:(



nice stuff as per usual

Jeff
 
Jackie

Do not laugh...I must open my English dictionary to understand the/your words such as stifling, antiquated, fringe, puritist, fangled, defy, culprits, muster, etc!
My vocabularies, grammar/tenses and so on is s*ck! (lol)

I understand that Mr. Wilbur is a Region Director, and that's why I seek inputs from him. If he says that I must wear a bandana or a helmet to shoot well, I would do it!

Please keep "to talk a lot" (to loan your term, lol). I learn many things from you and always enjoy your posts/replies in this forum!

-----------

Jeff,
Unfortunately I cannot find "canuck" in my dictionary, I might probably buy a new one.
Are you going to the SS too?


Thanks gentlemen,
seb.
 
Depends on the bag/rifle fit and how well it works. Many of the existing "accepted" setups are very near return to battery. Some may actually return..."guiding means" if you will. No sense bantering what is and what ain't. Guiding means is guiding means. If you can pull the rifle back and push it back up to the same point of aim, that's guiding means.

I may have misunderstood the pictures entirely. Looked like the bag fit into the stock in one of the pictures.

"Is it legal ?" will be determined at the time of protest should that occur. If a close call exists it might make sense to have a backup.

No sand bag supported gun will ever be completely return-to-battery capable, heck , even some railguns cant achieve the capability. Seb your gunstock is just fine the way it is, good luck at the SS.....................................Don
 
Last edited:
"canuck"

Thats what us fine people south of the Canadian Border call them and even some northern folks use the word.

Also the reason why you don't find the word in your English Dictionary, Jefferson was speaking American, not English
 
Jeff,
Unfortunately I cannot find "canuck" in my dictionary, I might probably buy a new one.
Are you going to the SS too?


Thanks gentlemen,
seb.



Bill Gammon= sneaky canuck, cannot "buy a new one", broke the mold when making the original.


Meaning=
The Random House Dictionary notes that: "The term Canuck is first recorded about 1835 as an Americanism, originally referring specifically to a French Canadian. This was probably the original meaning, though in Canada and other countries, "Canuck" refers to any Canadian."

[edit] Usage and examples
Canadians use "Canuck" as an affectionate description of nationality and the word carries no particular patriotic overtones. A few Americans misinterpret "Canuck" as an offensive noun but would be hard pressed to find a Canadian, French or English, insulted by the word - the opposite being most likely. It is similar in use to "Yankee" for an American.
 
Sebastian,

regardless of whether or not it ends up being legal for registered competition I very much like the design/shape of the stock. I definately feel it has that cool factor. I for one am into the modern day look of things by there nice lines.

I feel it may be something worthwhile pursuing with a stockmaker to even produce for the masses out there.

I for one, would be first on the list for one to use on my varmint gun.

Keep up the great work.


Calvin
 
U S A invaded by CANUCKS at the SS in Ohio

lots of us I think

from the West coast Jeff and Robert (Dan has to work)

from Central Canada; George and Vera, Bill Gammon (or God as we like to call him) and about 4 or 5 more but they have to decide shortly.

Let's face it we are taking over since our dollar is stronger than it was last year.

I have a Canada Hat for SEB as promised in 2005, since you were not in Vienna it is still here. I did not want to mail it as it may have been lost.

So if you do not mind being a honorary Canuck I will get you a hat like the ones we wore in 2005 and 2007. (watch him shoot then)

see you at the SS

Jeff
 
AWESOME!!!


I open all of Seb's posts just so's I can see some more of his (poor) scale drawings.....

Sebastian, that is a high compliment :) and your (poor) sketches are high art.

Nice work


al
 
Money

I wouldn't spend a lot of money on it. Someone will B**** and they will change the rule book. Get the directors to ok it 1st.
Bob
 
Jeff,....me with a Canada Hat & honorary Canuck?? --- I am honoured really. I should look more "charming" with it, Lol. :D
We have a traditional (old time) hat overhere, Javanese hat, called "blangkon" (it looks weird!). I will bring one for you....Anyway, I wouldn't ask you to be a honorary "Javanese", lol.

seb.
 
Last edited:
Jeff,

I am sorry here....the stock has already painted in different color instead of white, yesterday.
It is clear coated already, but not polished yet. (It's kind of "chameleon" paint on the stock, looks deep purple looking frontally, looks dark green from the side).
The stock weighs a bit less than 25 oz (about 690 grams) with the catamaran heel under the rear buttstock, and approx 23.6 oz (670 grams) with the "1/2 inch flat". The parts under the rear buttstock are interchangable.
Also made a weight for HV, just from steel (weighs about 27 oz / 1.2 kgs, painted), supposed to be secured under/between the catamaran.

Top elevation
Picture1130.jpg


Bottom elevation
Picture1135.jpg


Side elevation with the 3" catamaran
Picture1132.jpg


Side elevation with "1/2 inch flat"
Picture1133.jpg


Detail on the rear
Picture1138.jpg


Fore end
Picture1136.jpg


Action area & bolt recess. I just hope the inletting is okay/match.
Picture1152.jpg


Picture1150.jpg



Also made the rear bag. It has 3" spacing (a bit less actually) between the bunny ears. The bag is the third one (the ears on the first & second bag were not fit).
Picture1145.jpg



Best Regards,
seb.
 

Attachments

  • Picture 1130.jpg
    Picture 1130.jpg
    14.9 KB · Views: 224
  • Picture 1135.jpg
    Picture 1135.jpg
    15.9 KB · Views: 208
  • Picture 1132.jpg
    Picture 1132.jpg
    12.9 KB · Views: 216
  • Picture 1136.jpg
    Picture 1136.jpg
    372.5 KB · Views: 220
  • Picture 1138.jpg
    Picture 1138.jpg
    46.6 KB · Views: 213
Last edited:
Bedding Block

Seb:
I may have missed it somewhere in the previous posts, but what action is the Bedding Block designed for? Looks like an old Shilen DGA bedding block.
 
More pics

Jim just told me a moment ago that the stock is/would be legal.
GLAD TO HEAR IT!!!!!!!!!!

seb.
 

Attachments

  • Picture 1145.jpg
    Picture 1145.jpg
    161.1 KB · Views: 353
  • Picture 1142.jpg
    Picture 1142.jpg
    124 KB · Views: 332
  • Picture 1134.jpg
    Picture 1134.jpg
    9.6 KB · Views: 328
  • Picture 1133.jpg
    Picture 1133.jpg
    11 KB · Views: 337
Back
Top