Sorry To Have To Post This

I was a UAW local 658 worker at International Trucks at Springfield, Ohio .
I'm NOT saying that unions are good and I'm not saying they are bad. But with out the union we would get about the same pay as you would in Mexico $1.50 a hour that is what International pay the line workers in Mexico, do you want to work for that??????in a sweet shop?????? Then again you have union members taking advantage of everything not only union reps but the work force also. and that is bad.

The thing the companies have managers that don't want to manage and the unions have reps that don't want to do any thing . So there is where we are at, both company and unions need someone to police them and you need someone to police the police, OR WE NEED people just to do the job that they were hired for.
And I don't know what the answer is to that.

And most of what has been said here from every one on both sides of this discusion, I agree with to some degree.
Art
 
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Zippy

I respectfully disagree with you. The AMA and the ABA are Unions. You have to be a member to work in your chosen profession and pay dues.
 
DaveMK. That's fine.
In a Union, you work for the Union. They are supposed to get you a job.
Companies hire you out of a hall. "Out of the Book".
That was the old way. IBEW, Carpenters, Ironworkers,......

Lawyers and doctors don't have to belong to sh**.
All they need is a business license. But, their insurance probably requires membership.

In the land of the "ARE YOU LICENSED"? (MI, MA, CA) My doctor was not even " Board Certified" by the state.
But, My nephew informs me. You need a license to paint. Kid hires "Licensed" painters, twice his age. To paint. Nephew does minor home remodeling.
Don't need a licensed to do roofing. But, you need a license to paint.
 
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Rail road worker

I am a proud member of the utu let me tell you the rail roads of this country are the most productive and safest in the world we do have to show up and be there. When we do not get something done we have to have a damn good reason so don't lump us in the auto workers.
 
Union leaders

I am a member of the BLET Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers & Trainmen. From my perspective on this story the management of ford motor company could have put a stop to this. I know for sure if I was off the railroad property and still collecting pay I would be fired on the first offense. Those union leaders are elected by the union members and I doubt they will get reelected.
 
you've got good & bad on both sides,just like it is everywhere,i'm a steelworker looking at a plant closing notice for feb 15th,not because of either side but because of the economy,in times like this company & union need to try to put their differences behind them & work together to try & survive,just my .02 worth
 
Pokerplayer said:
I am not an UAW member, I belong to the IBEW (electrical workers), I am so glad that this post starts with why I don't buy union. I am sure that we are alone in fleecing America. I think that the politicians in this country have the best work and retirement benifits, only because they are our employees, we are the union bosses to them and have lost being managment. Union members by a whole make negociated wages (fair) have health care and retirement, all the things the government wants to furnish. You probably don't remember when the UAW gave in to company demands and to get them the companies had to put UAW members on the board of directors, and now wonder what went wrong.(this is not rocket science) We as a people and greed reap what we sowed. We demand our retirement plans make money, but then complain when they buy oil futures with our money. We take profit and dividends and invest them in foriegn products and wonder why so many jobs are shipped to China. The Chinese gov provdes haelth care, retirement, utilities. Of course when we want all of those things provided, we will live like the Chinese citizens. WONDER WHAT DAY THE GOVERNMENT WILL LET SHOOT, WITHOUT PUTTING ON A UNIFORM. Thanks for starting this post it is a GREAT CHRISTMAS POST
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Let me tell you something about thr IBEW.Its been over 40 yrs but I rember it well. My company contracted a 500kv line from the Susquana river to Lancaster Pa I did many jobs mostly welding, operating heavy equip. and mechanic. My company put me in the IBEW as a welder for this job. We had to set 2 towers on an island in the river and had a barge on standby to take the concrete trucks across to pour the footers. The IBEW crane operator didnt show up and there were 12 trucks wating. The concrete had to be poured in 2 hrs to pass inspection. I had repaired that crane on a previous job so I got upon it and set the ramp where the trucks could drive opon the barge. Never saw such a stink in my life. The only reason there was not a strike was they discovered the operator was drunk. I too, try to buy Made in USA but never union.
 
Regardless of from what perspective you see Unions, they are very complicated. Even within the same union, one local may be different than another. It depends upon the people at the top of both sides.

I agree above that the people at fault for the situation in the original post is Ford Motor Company. Nobody else. If people went to excess like is portrayed in that video, then stopping it was as easy as 123. I should think those people could easily be prosecuted for excesses like that. And should be.

Folks like FMC, the UAW and others with similar relationships, need to look at themselves a bit more and be more realistic. A Union can only gouge an employer just so much. An employer can only lean on their employees just so much. Unfortunately, when companies get so big, it is most likely the customer that suffers when things go bad, not the company or the employees. And that's with or without a union.

With the current labor laws in the US, Unions have mostly outlived their usefullness. I say mostly, because I think there are still industries which are led by people of such unscrupulous nature that a union is probably in order there. Large cable companies are a good example.

Opposing sides can endlessly debate the pros and cons of Unions and both sides will make great cases. It all comes down to the individuals on both sides. If they make the wrong choices enough times, you end up with something like the current state of affairs for the UAW and automakers. I think the UAW is going to get a big kick in the shorts coming up real soon. Well, along with the US working public. Just think, if the Govt gives the big three a nice Xmas present, you can say that we taxpayers paid the wages of these guys in the post #1 video...

There are too many examples of non-union companies which thrive and pay employees more money than union companies. All they ask for is a little more work.
 
This issues touches the Firearms Industry in a big way. Ever wonder why Big Green has so many quality and cost issues?? Just something to think about..
 
labor Issues

Now I am sort of baffled, where in the general discussion does it say that this forum is related to Firearms topics. Merry Christmas
 
Correct!

RStiefel said:
Don't blame all unions because of the UAW.
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and don't blame the car companies. Sure they should be able to control this and this should be a wakeup call for them to do so. But I'm an AMERICAN and I will buy AMERICAN as much as I can...period!!
 
You guys should read "Homestead" by Wm. Serrin, Andrew Carnegie was really a rotten, no good son-of-a-B****, not a great benevolent philanthropic man we think of today and so were all of his henchmen. When you go into work next week, tell your boss you no longer want to work 40hrs week, you don't want overtime pay, you don't want holidays off, you don't want paid vacation, you don't want a pension, you don't want medical, you don't want a coffee break, you will work through lunch and you don't want job safety. Who do you think got you, all of us, these things some of us (most) take for granted? Thanks, Douglas
 
stall said:
Now I am sort of baffled, where in the general discussion does it say that this forum is related to Firearms topics. Merry Christmas
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First Go here
http://www.benchrest.com/forums/index.php

Read the description of the forum under where it says General Discussion and you will see something very similar to this :

General Discussion (10 Viewing)
Firearms topics not related to Benchrest

Not that I minded the post, nor the topic in the least.
 
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