Shipping to Canada
- Thread starter Dave S
- Start date
dankillough
New member
Dave,
I shipped about 30 to Canada until one day the U.S. customs gave me a call. They gave me 3 options
1. Let customs have the scope
2. send $200 plus shipping and they would ship me the scope back, and I promise to not do it again.
3. We could go to court.
Needless to say, I do not ship scopes out of the U.S. anymore. I can not find any law any where that says I can not ship a scope to Canada, but it still cost me $200+
I shipped about 30 to Canada until one day the U.S. customs gave me a call. They gave me 3 options
1. Let customs have the scope
2. send $200 plus shipping and they would ship me the scope back, and I promise to not do it again.
3. We could go to court.
Needless to say, I do not ship scopes out of the U.S. anymore. I can not find any law any where that says I can not ship a scope to Canada, but it still cost me $200+
K
kansasvet
Guest
I shipped a Lyman Super Target Scope up there 3 yrs. ago, a real pain.
Ship it with the Post Office and insure it.
It seems the local postal clerks have a lot of authority on deciding what can get into the country. Do not mention gun or firearm in your description of package contents.
It should make it to it's destination in about 5 days and the customer will get it when the post office official decides he can have it.
The scope I sent took almost a month to make it to the customer, he was informed it was there but the A/H wouldn't give it to him till I filed an insurance claim and package trace. The A/H coughed it up immediately then.
The rest of the stuff I have sold to Canadian customers was shipped to a US address near the border and the customer hand carried it across the border.
Ship it with the Post Office and insure it.
It seems the local postal clerks have a lot of authority on deciding what can get into the country. Do not mention gun or firearm in your description of package contents.
It should make it to it's destination in about 5 days and the customer will get it when the post office official decides he can have it.
The scope I sent took almost a month to make it to the customer, he was informed it was there but the A/H wouldn't give it to him till I filed an insurance claim and package trace. The A/H coughed it up immediately then.
The rest of the stuff I have sold to Canadian customers was shipped to a US address near the border and the customer hand carried it across the border.
D
Dennis Sorensen
Guest
It's hard to believe so many people in the US don't realize the problem of exporting scopes, bullets, brass, gun parts, barrels, actions, guns, to Canada is entirely within the US.
It is your laws and regulations regarding import/export that make it such a pain in the ass. It is your laws and regulations that have affected your businesses, it has nothing to do with Canadian laws.
Here are a few links to the U.S. Dept. of Commerce for those wishing to export scopes,mounts,rings, shotgun, & shotgun parts from the U.S.
http://www.commerce.gov/
http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/index.html
Export permits are required for everything under the Commerce Dept's control. There are no value exemptions.
Canadians can not buy it in the US and hand carry it across the border either... if the US authorities catch him be will be detained and the goods confiscated at the least. The US has active Border Patrols stopping Canadians in the US heading back to Canada and checking for items requiring export paperwork. A few years ago now, I had a friend stopped, his Van searched and damaged and $800 worth of shotgun parts confiscated and he was detained for 5 hours and warned that he could have been charged as well.
It is unfortunate that so much has been screwed up in the name of anti terrorism.
It is your laws and regulations regarding import/export that make it such a pain in the ass. It is your laws and regulations that have affected your businesses, it has nothing to do with Canadian laws.
Here are a few links to the U.S. Dept. of Commerce for those wishing to export scopes,mounts,rings, shotgun, & shotgun parts from the U.S.
http://www.commerce.gov/
http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/index.html
Export permits are required for everything under the Commerce Dept's control. There are no value exemptions.
Canadians can not buy it in the US and hand carry it across the border either... if the US authorities catch him be will be detained and the goods confiscated at the least. The US has active Border Patrols stopping Canadians in the US heading back to Canada and checking for items requiring export paperwork. A few years ago now, I had a friend stopped, his Van searched and damaged and $800 worth of shotgun parts confiscated and he was detained for 5 hours and warned that he could have been charged as well.
It is unfortunate that so much has been screwed up in the name of anti terrorism.
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John Kielly
Shari's fan club
... and it's not only to Canada. We all suffer from US restrictions which is a real POS here in Australia because there supposedly is a specific agreement in place to avoid that problem. On the other hand, our local distributors are smiling with glee as they hold us in the Christmas grip & charge what they like for US products.
A cynic could easily believe that there is an odour of commercial connivance in this issue.
A cynic could easily believe that there is an odour of commercial connivance in this issue.
C
Cheechako
Guest
Dennis
Correct as far as dealers and commercial trade go but there are also the Canada Post regulations as they pertain to the exchange of things such as brass between shooters and collectors. I can't send Fred in Alberta a handful of my 6.97 Whizbang wildcat cases and he's not about to risk jail time to reciprocate. Canada Post has intentionally refused to define "inert munitions". They say it's so they can entrap ammunition smugglers since there is no clear definition when, in fact, it really affects the law abiding citizens.
JMHO
Ray
Correct as far as dealers and commercial trade go but there are also the Canada Post regulations as they pertain to the exchange of things such as brass between shooters and collectors. I can't send Fred in Alberta a handful of my 6.97 Whizbang wildcat cases and he's not about to risk jail time to reciprocate. Canada Post has intentionally refused to define "inert munitions". They say it's so they can entrap ammunition smugglers since there is no clear definition when, in fact, it really affects the law abiding citizens.
JMHO
Ray
D
Dennis Sorensen
Guest
Inert brass can be mailed in Canada and it is every day... I don't know how you can define 'inert brass' any more specifically... it is the US restrictions that prohibit the export of it without import/export licenses in place first. They do not want terrorists obtaining components without going through the paperwork in advance.
Wonder why Midway doesn't ship to Canada? ... it is not because of the Canadian laws... it was a US law that fined them big time...
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Cheechako
Guest
Dennis
You need to re-read my post. I'm not talking about dealers or commercial trade. I'm talking about two shooters or collectors trading a couple of empty cases.
Call your local Canada Post office and ask them where "Inert Munitions" is defined in the regulations. Or better yet, what are "munitions"?
I collect cartridges and I trade with other collectors all over the world, including some not so friendly ones. The only way to trade with a collector in Canada is to hope and pray or to have a shooter or worker smuggle them across.
Ray
You need to re-read my post. I'm not talking about dealers or commercial trade. I'm talking about two shooters or collectors trading a couple of empty cases.
Call your local Canada Post office and ask them where "Inert Munitions" is defined in the regulations. Or better yet, what are "munitions"?
I collect cartridges and I trade with other collectors all over the world, including some not so friendly ones. The only way to trade with a collector in Canada is to hope and pray or to have a shooter or worker smuggle them across.
Ray
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Dennis Sorensen
Guest
I am not talking about commercial trade only...
It is against US regulations and enforced by the US... you can not legally mail me an empty unprimed cartridge case... and it is not a Canadian law or regulation that is governing that. It does not matter if you are a large company shipping millions of brass or an individual sending one to a friend... you are required by US regulations to obtain the proper paperwork beforehand.
The smuggling that is required is due to US regulations. Canadian customs could care less.
Munitions have never been accepted in the mail in Canada. Describing something as 'Inert Munitions' would probably always be rejected by the Canadian mail. Described as 'formed brass' would be more appropriate. But that point is rather moot, as today's US regulations govern the export of all components.
B
BrianJ
Guest
regulations
I was always under the impression the restrictive laws were here in the US as Dennis points out.
However, I also recall seeing signs posted on both sides when crossing the border years past that the Canadian Customs would enforce US laws and US Customs would enforce Canadian Laws. This being the case it matters not whose law it is its being enforced on both sides and its a sad state of affairs for both our countries.
bjm
I was always under the impression the restrictive laws were here in the US as Dennis points out.
However, I also recall seeing signs posted on both sides when crossing the border years past that the Canadian Customs would enforce US laws and US Customs would enforce Canadian Laws. This being the case it matters not whose law it is its being enforced on both sides and its a sad state of affairs for both our countries.
bjm
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C
Cheechako
Guest
Dennis
As I said above, I am a cartridge collector. I trade inert cartridges with collecors all over the world. In order to ship them through the USPS they have to be inert, that is, bullet pulled, powder dumped, and primer killed. You are required to attach a Customs Declaration. The cartridges are listed as "Inert Cartridges". I've never had the USPS refuse a package. I don't know where people get the idea that such a thing is illegal. Wouldn't you think that the USPS would be advised of such a prohibition and stop all such shipments?
I get packages of inert cartridges from other collectors all over the world. They, too, have a Customs Declaration attached. My USPS continues to hand them to me when I go by the Post Office to pick them up.
Canada Post used to allow the shipment of Inert cartridges and Inert Munitions. About two or three years ago they adopted a regulation prohibiting the practice on the assumption that bad guys were sending live munitions but labeling them as inert. Their answer to this supposed "problem" was to prohibit the shipment of ALL inert munitions. They were asked to define exactly what was meant by inert munitions. Did it include small arms ammunition? How about empty brass cartridge cases? We were told that there would be no definition since the bad guys would use that as way to work around the regulation. How about empty inert cartridge cases traded between collectors? Well, that would probably be OK but we're not going to say yes.
Dennis, if you doubt what I am saying here, simply go to your own Canada Post regulations and find the rules. More importantly, find the definitions. You may be surprised.
If you think the problem is on the US side, try sending or receiving a couple of inert cartridges from Italy, or the UK, or Germany. Try sending your buddy in Ontario a package. Ask the clerk at Canada Post if that is OK. Let me know how that works out for you.
I hope I am wrong. I have quite a few collector friends in Canada and we would love to hear that we can once again trade inert cartridges.
Ray
As I said above, I am a cartridge collector. I trade inert cartridges with collecors all over the world. In order to ship them through the USPS they have to be inert, that is, bullet pulled, powder dumped, and primer killed. You are required to attach a Customs Declaration. The cartridges are listed as "Inert Cartridges". I've never had the USPS refuse a package. I don't know where people get the idea that such a thing is illegal. Wouldn't you think that the USPS would be advised of such a prohibition and stop all such shipments?
I get packages of inert cartridges from other collectors all over the world. They, too, have a Customs Declaration attached. My USPS continues to hand them to me when I go by the Post Office to pick them up.
Canada Post used to allow the shipment of Inert cartridges and Inert Munitions. About two or three years ago they adopted a regulation prohibiting the practice on the assumption that bad guys were sending live munitions but labeling them as inert. Their answer to this supposed "problem" was to prohibit the shipment of ALL inert munitions. They were asked to define exactly what was meant by inert munitions. Did it include small arms ammunition? How about empty brass cartridge cases? We were told that there would be no definition since the bad guys would use that as way to work around the regulation. How about empty inert cartridge cases traded between collectors? Well, that would probably be OK but we're not going to say yes.
Dennis, if you doubt what I am saying here, simply go to your own Canada Post regulations and find the rules. More importantly, find the definitions. You may be surprised.
If you think the problem is on the US side, try sending or receiving a couple of inert cartridges from Italy, or the UK, or Germany. Try sending your buddy in Ontario a package. Ask the clerk at Canada Post if that is OK. Let me know how that works out for you.
I hope I am wrong. I have quite a few collector friends in Canada and we would love to hear that we can once again trade inert cartridges.
Ray
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D
Dennis Sorensen
Guest
Ray,
Obviously in the past you have had problems with 'inert cartridges' and Canada. I can understand it would be very easy for a customs officer to refuse it with the premise - 'How do I know it is inert? For all I know the person shipping it could just say it is inert. For all intents and purposes it appears no different than a live cartridge.' I won't argue that fact. I know there is no problem within Canada with "inert brass."
But with the changes made in the US since 911; exportation from the US of so many items has been restricted. it is a growing list changing all the time. 6 x 48 scope mounting screws were on the restricted list. Thankfully that was changed not long ago.
But right now no one can export (legally) from the US cartridge brass or bullets just to name two inert objects... without the import/export paperwork. I would suspect your 'inert cartridges' fall into that category. Whether your post office is now aware of this I don't know. It is your Commerce Department you should be contacting.
Common statements from many US dealers. The same US laws apply to individuals.
International Orders: Due to government regulation we do not ship solvents, bullets, brass cases, cores, jackets, actions, barrels, powder, primers, triggers or "tactical" scopes out of the country.
In most cases the following items require an Export permit. Scopes (Depends on Country) Barrels, Triggers, Bullets, Brass, Actions etc.
A Canadian can import brass with no restrictions basically from anywhere in the world except from the US.
Obviously in the past you have had problems with 'inert cartridges' and Canada. I can understand it would be very easy for a customs officer to refuse it with the premise - 'How do I know it is inert? For all I know the person shipping it could just say it is inert. For all intents and purposes it appears no different than a live cartridge.' I won't argue that fact. I know there is no problem within Canada with "inert brass."
But with the changes made in the US since 911; exportation from the US of so many items has been restricted. it is a growing list changing all the time. 6 x 48 scope mounting screws were on the restricted list. Thankfully that was changed not long ago.
But right now no one can export (legally) from the US cartridge brass or bullets just to name two inert objects... without the import/export paperwork. I would suspect your 'inert cartridges' fall into that category. Whether your post office is now aware of this I don't know. It is your Commerce Department you should be contacting.
Common statements from many US dealers. The same US laws apply to individuals.
International Orders: Due to government regulation we do not ship solvents, bullets, brass cases, cores, jackets, actions, barrels, powder, primers, triggers or "tactical" scopes out of the country.
In most cases the following items require an Export permit. Scopes (Depends on Country) Barrels, Triggers, Bullets, Brass, Actions etc.
A Canadian can import brass with no restrictions basically from anywhere in the world except from the US.
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Question:
What does a Canadian need to do if he leaves a part in the U.S. for repair and needs it shipped back to him. I'm not talking about an action or barrelled action, just a part of the gun. Like a bolt, stock, trigger, etc.
I've always wondered how you guys up there handled things like that.
What does a Canadian need to do if he leaves a part in the U.S. for repair and needs it shipped back to him. I'm not talking about an action or barrelled action, just a part of the gun. Like a bolt, stock, trigger, etc.
I've always wondered how you guys up there handled things like that.
C
Cheechako
Guest
Dennis
We are getting nowhere on this. I think you're still confusing a dealer and commercial shipments (US State Dept and Dept of Commerce) with an individual and gifts to another individual.
I agree that I cannot mail certain items such as gun parts, but collectable quanties of inert cartridges is another thing altogether. I can only repeat that I do this almost weekly to and from places such as UK, Italy, Germany, Norway, Australia, NZ, France. But never to or from Canada.
The Customs Declaration that I fill out was under the jurisdiction of the US Treasury Department but with the passage of the Homeland Security Act, the U.S. Customs Service passed to the Department of Homeland Security. So it appears that it's not only the USPS who is ignorant of the laws.
You are in Canada. Ask your local Canada Post and tell me what they say. I have never been able to get a straight answer from them, probably because I'm in the US. Ask them if you can ship inert cartridges to other countries (not the US), or receive them.
Otherwise, we'll simply have to agree to disagree.
Ray
We are getting nowhere on this. I think you're still confusing a dealer and commercial shipments (US State Dept and Dept of Commerce) with an individual and gifts to another individual.
I agree that I cannot mail certain items such as gun parts, but collectable quanties of inert cartridges is another thing altogether. I can only repeat that I do this almost weekly to and from places such as UK, Italy, Germany, Norway, Australia, NZ, France. But never to or from Canada.
The Customs Declaration that I fill out was under the jurisdiction of the US Treasury Department but with the passage of the Homeland Security Act, the U.S. Customs Service passed to the Department of Homeland Security. So it appears that it's not only the USPS who is ignorant of the laws.
You are in Canada. Ask your local Canada Post and tell me what they say. I have never been able to get a straight answer from them, probably because I'm in the US. Ask them if you can ship inert cartridges to other countries (not the US), or receive them.
Otherwise, we'll simply have to agree to disagree.
Ray
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Dennis Sorensen
Guest
It's a real pain in the last few years... most gun parts are restricted items as far as the US State Department is concerned and require the paperwork which can take a few months. I know that some guys do ship and don't get caught and some guys smuggle and don't get caught... but the majority suffer the wait or don't deal within the US anymore. As far as Canada is concerned it is just a part without any possession restrictions... a kid could have it... but due to the US export restrictions they will issue an import license so the US shipper can then get his export license to ship it. The Canadian import license is only required for US shipments. The rest of the world can ship those parts. Brownell's has a real problem with 'third part' shipments... most of the parts they have are manufactured in the US but they can not export them if the manufacturer has not registered with the State Department. The manufacturer however can export.
International Traffic in Arms Regulations 2009
Official Version, Published April 1, 2009
ITAR Part 120 – Purpose and Definitions
ITAR Part 121 – The United States Munitions List
The following picture was taken from pages of material in the Munitions List.
You will note cartridge casings fall under the munitions list that require export licenses.
You will also note that to be exempt from requiring an export license cartridge cases have to be rendered useless beyond the point of restoration.
.
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sn0wballs
Guest
Canadian import requirments are here: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/import-importer-eng.htm
Can someone provide a link to the US Export requriments?
IanRobertson
New member
I think Dennis has given up on trying to make his point but he is correct.
It is very easy for a US citizen (or most others) to take guns and ammo into Canada. You need a temp licence you get when you cross and thats it. You can also do the test and get a Canadian firearms licence and if you have that you just wave it as you drive across. It would also allow you to buy rifles in Canada but it would not be suggested as unless you have done the correct US paperwork you would be smuggling when you took it back to the USA, although you could store it in Canada. Many US shooters that compete in Canada on a regular basis just get a Canadian licence which is the same as what Canadians need to own guns.
Now try it the other way around. It would be great if Canadians could do the same when going to the USA to shoot!! Oh well, I guess the USA is better protected this way!
It is very easy for a US citizen (or most others) to take guns and ammo into Canada. You need a temp licence you get when you cross and thats it. You can also do the test and get a Canadian firearms licence and if you have that you just wave it as you drive across. It would also allow you to buy rifles in Canada but it would not be suggested as unless you have done the correct US paperwork you would be smuggling when you took it back to the USA, although you could store it in Canada. Many US shooters that compete in Canada on a regular basis just get a Canadian licence which is the same as what Canadians need to own guns.
Now try it the other way around. It would be great if Canadians could do the same when going to the USA to shoot!! Oh well, I guess the USA is better protected this way!
Not sure what the process is but we have several guys that come down to the IBS group shoots from Ontario, several times a year. They seem to indicate that it's not a big deal.