Shipping Abroad

When Charles Dickens wrote the immortal line for Mr Bumble "the law is a ass". He never wrote a truer line.
 
I disagree. The law is decidedly smart at times.

Concerned about terrorism & need to impress the voters? Enact laws & regulations that restrict free trade of an inordinately large raft of goods. The suckers will believe that you're achieving a great result & all those domestic manufacturers will have their international franchises protected.

Bothered by how the rest of the world does it? Make your regs confused enough that you can respond suitably whenever there's a political need to apply the heat.

And of course, If you're an Aussie like me, just remember what solution one Prime Minister used to sweep the shortcomings of our mental health management under the carpet.

Laws & regulations are enacted to give the impression that decisive action is being taken - and it seems to work every time.
 
Further to John's post.

Vague law invites selective enforcement and prosecution, which is of course the point. Vague law intimidates beyond its blurred edges. The more expansive the law is, the less likely that a person can operate perfectly within it. Enforcement discretion cannot be uniform. So goes a system of laws and not men.
 
I have always assumed it is about money, not the nature of the goods. You can export firearms related materials as log as you have the proper licenses & permits. They are not free.

Smuggling has been going on about as long as we've had borders. Tom Horn (shooting reference) remarked that the cost of buttons (for clothes) in Mexico was about 10 times the cost as in the U.S. So of course there was a vigorous button-smuggling operation all along the U.S. southwest border with Mexico.

(Ten times is approximate. If you want the exact number, I'll have to look it up.)
 
John Kielly said:
I disagree. The law is decidedly smart at times.

Concerned about terrorism & need to impress the voters? Enact laws & regulations that restrict free trade of an inordinately large raft of goods. The suckers will believe that you're achieving a great result & all those domestic manufacturers will have their international franchises protected.

Bothered by how the rest of the world does it? Make your regs confused enough that you can respond suitably whenever there's a political need to apply the heat.

And of course, If you're an Aussie like me, just remember what solution one Prime Minister used to sweep the shortcomings of our mental health management under the carpet.

Laws & regulations are enacted to give the impression that decisive action is being taken - and it seems to work every time.
Click to expand...

Mr. Kielly, you have a PM.

seb.
 
FYI, I have checked with the U.S. Homeland Security and the US Postal service and its perfectly legal to ship rifle scopes to Scotland without any export permits or export license. You also have to check a list to make sure that the receiving party is not on a denied list. Also the US postal said it is legal to ship gun parts to the U.K.
I can not believe all the false and inaccurate info one receives on these sorts of matters. I have always found that if one is not sure of what they are talking about its best not to reply.
 
fe1 said:
FYI, I have checked with the U.S. Homeland Security and the US Postal service and its perfectly legal to ship rifle scopes to Scotland without any export permits or export license. You also have to check a list to make sure that the receiving party is not on a denied list. Also the US postal said it is legal to ship gun parts to the U.K.
I can not believe all the false and inaccurate info one receives on these sorts of matters. I have always found that if one is not sure of what they are talking about its best not to reply.
Click to expand...

Well the US Postal Service has nothing to do with it the import/export restrictions... neither do Homeland Security. I suggest you check with the US State Department. You could also phone and talk with a US Scope manufacturer (Leupold).

Export Restrictions:

The U.S. Department of Commerce and the U.S. Department of State, Office of Munitions Control regulates our products. Due to this we kindly request that you read the below paragraphs regarding export regulations.

If you should have any questions or require additional information regarding export regulations please contact our knowledgeable and experienced staff or contact the:

U.S.Department of Commerce
Bureau of Industry and Security
Office of Exporter Services:
PH (202) 482-4811
Website: http://www.bis.doc.gov

U.S. Department of State
International Traffic in Arms Regulations
Office of Defense Trade Control:
PH (202) 663 2714
Website: http://www.state.gov


Export Regulations:

Export of night vision equipment and optical sighting equipment is controlled by the U.S. Department of State Office of Defense Trade Controls, in accordance with International Traffic in Arms (ITAR), Title 22, Code of Federal Regulations Part 120-130 and/or the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) U.S. Department of Commerce.

It is unlawful to export, or attempt to export or otherwise transfer or sell any hardware or technical data or furnish any service to any foreign person, whether abroad or in the United States, for which a license or written approval of the U.S. Government is required, without first obtaining the required license or written approval from the Department of the U.S. Government having jurisdiction.

It is the Resellers/End Users responsibility to request and obtain export licenses for the export of the subject items, and to ensure that the requirements of all applicable laws, regulations and administrative policies are met.

Also: http://www.opticsplanet.net/export.html ahhhhh!! this bloody link died... I'll see if I can find it again.
 
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fe1

What Dennis said. You asked the wrong people. If you asked USPS if it's OK to mail soft point bullets to the UK, they'd say yes. And they would be right, as far as their authority is concerned. But restrictions on such things is not within their purview.

Ray
 
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After talking with the Dept of State ,US Dept of Commerce,US Bureau 0f Industry and Security, and several other US Govt offices there is NO Licencse or permits to ship a Commercial Grade Rifle Scope to the U.K. If anyone would like their phone numbers PM me.
 
This is Leupold official statement on the subject.

International Product Service


We are required under U.S. law to obtain an export license to ship riflescopes overseas. This requirement includes new product sales and product returned for service. Dealers, distributors, and consumers should review the following before returning a riflescope to the factory:

Some else has already tried.

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?73615-FYI-shipping-scopes-out-of-the-USA
 
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fe1 said:
After talking with the Dept of State ,US Dept of Commerce,US Bureau 0f Industry and Security, and several other US Govt offices there is NO Licencse or permits to ship a Commercial Grade Rifle Scope to the U.K. If anyone would like their phone numbers PM me.
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fe1 - Man you've been busy on the phone. I've had to deal with the US bureaucracy by phone from time to time, mostly Medicare and Social Security issues, and I cannot imagine that you were able to talk to the right people in such a short time. I'm usually on hold for at least an hour and it once took me 4 months just to talk to a person who could send me a form. I was going to suggest that you call Midway or Leupold but it looks like Hambone's link already did that.

ray
 
It seems the rules might have recently relaxed a little. A friend recently ordered a scope from OpticsZone who where happy to ship as long as he give them an assurance that he was the end user, and the scope would not be offered for resale.

Scope arrived 2.5 weeks from order date and apart from getting stung for the import duty, VAT, and handling fee he's as happy as a clown on nitrous oxide.

So things remain as clear as mud!
 
These laws do not include export to all foreign countries just mainly the known terrorist countries and the United Kingdom is not one of them. From what I was told Military Spec, electronic devices and Night Vision can not be shipped to U.K. without the proper export license.
Thanks to all that give me the proper info on who to contact. The scope is on its way to Scotland legally.
 
fe1 said:
The scope is on its way to Scotland legally.
Click to expand...

Lets hope some over zealous customs jobsworth doesn't decide otherwise as per my earlier link to a thread on this very forum.
 
Everyone is free to do whatever they want to or attempt to ...

But I don't believe anyone within the US can legally export any rifle scope to any country; without the import/export paperwork. That has been the law for quite some time now regardless of how friendly the country is...

I would have to see that in writing from the US State Department before I would believe it.
Hopefully someone will post a link to the US State Department showing this change in the law. I would not rely on phone calls.
 
fe1

I don't want to belabor this, but just for my own information - I assume the scope was sent Priority Mail Insured. To be insured they would have asked if the contents were fragile, liquid, etc, etc. How did you ID the contents? Rifle scope? Telescopic sight? And what did you list as the contents on the Customs Declaration?

All of us here can learn from your experience.

Ray
 
fe1 said:
These laws do not include export to all foreign countries just mainly the known terrorist countries and the United Kingdom is not one of them. From what I was told Military Spec, electronic devices and Night Vision can not be shipped to U.K. without the proper export license.
Click to expand...

Is Canada a known terrorist country? Part of the commonwealth with ties to the United Kingdom... Canadians have not been able to import plain old rifle scopes from the US without import/export licenses for a few years now because the US State Department will not allow it. We can import them from anywhere else in the world without import/export licenses.

and the published data from several sites includes rifle scopes with Military Spec, electronic devices and Night Vision equipment.
 
Cheechako said:
fe1

I don't want to belabor this, but just for my own information - I assume the scope was sent Priority Mail Insured. To be insured they would have asked if the contents were fragile, liquid, etc, etc. How did you ID the contents? Rifle scope? Telescopic sight? And what did you list as the contents on the Customs Declaration?

All of us here can learn from your experience.

Ray
Click to expand...
Yes, Fragile, Priority Mail,Insured, Content:Leupold Target Rifle Scope 36X,In Box 11-NOEEI30.37 In box 17 -License No.ECCN OA987 is NLR to Scotland
 
The key words are "Mil-Spec Scopes" in which a Leupold 36 BR is not Mil-Spec but a Commercial grade scope.
 
Dennis Sorensen said:
Is Canada a known terrorist country? Part of the commonwealth with ties to the United Kingdom... Canadians have not been able to import plain old rifle scopes from the US without import/export licenses for a few years now because the US State Department will not allow it. We can import them from anywhere else in the world without import/export licenses.

and the published data from several sites includes rifle scopes with Military Spec, electronic devices and Night Vision equipment.
Click to expand...
Mr. Sorensen,
Your laws may differ. I did not inquire about Canada so I cannot comment on that issue. I only inquired about shipping from U.S.A. to Scotland in the United Kingdom. The info I provided is what was provided to me by the U.S.Dept of Industry and Security, the U.S. Dept. of Commerce and the U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security. They all said it could be shipped to Scotland. I have kept records of times,dates, and the persons I've spoken to, JUST IN CASE.
It all depends on where it's shipping from, what country its shipping to and the type of optics being shipped from what I was informed on.
 
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