Seb 3" catamaran heel will change the look of future gunstocks.

[Don]

Now dont get me wrong, aggregates may not drastically drop because of this new rear stock/bag configuration, but I think enough innovators are going to see that this new configuration idea is more stable than existing setups and will begin making changes simply because this is a "better design practice".

Seb, I think your idea; to simply come up with something that looked different, may in the end, result in a change in the way that BR gunstocks are made in the future.

This all assumes that some hiden power-to-be, doesnt become too jealous, and attempt to stop this new design idea by implementing a "rules change".

Over the last ten years, I have only made this prediction about 2 other BR innovations; the Farley stick shift front pedestal, and the introduction of relatively low cost Hawkeye borescope................and both have gone on to widespread use in the BR game. I predict your new idea will also find widespread acceptance.

Not every gunstock in the future will use this idea, just as not every front pedestal is of the articulating type, but there will be enough that incorporate this design idea to make a noticable difference in competitions to come.

Seb, good job..................Don

 

[alinwa]

morepix?

A am confuse

al

 

[lngrng]

Uh............yeah!
What are we looking at?

 

[Lynn]

Alinwa

Al you are looking at the bottom of the stock showing tracking rails like the guys use in 600 and 1,000 yard benchrest.The gun rides on the outside rail only not the full 3 inch wide forend like is typical.
Lynn

 

[liljoe]

Look down the page a bit for the other thread "Stock question", it has a bunch of other pics of his stock design.

Joe

 

[JohnVm]

Lynn, I think you are wrong on this as the forend is a flat 3", it is the lower rear of the stock that is designed like a catamaran and is designed to ride a special built rear bag, all designed by Sebastian.

 

[Lynn]

JohnVM

John in longrange competition alot of the heavyguns have 3 inch buttstocks on them.There is only the outer rail that actually touches the bag just like in the picture.He could do the same thing to the forend if he wanted.
We use 3 inches on the buttstock because you can buy good bags for that size.
Lynn

 

[-Yo-]

Seb,

Congrats on what looks to be like a very interesting design. FWIW, over three years ago when McMillan was building their F-Class stock I suggested they experiment with what I called a "swallowtail" rear design, to run over a single, rear triangular hump. I've also suggested this design, alternatively called "upside down 'Y'", to four other stock-makers. None took the idea seriously...

I'm pleased to see you had the brains and creativity to actually build it!

Whether it meets the short-range rules or not, it may prove an important innovation.

While we're suggesting things I thought of creating a forearm that was simply two wood slabs on each side, connected by "bridges" or brackets. This would lower the barrel as close as possible to the bags and improve air ventilation. Imagine a "front catamaran" design with the barrel running (free-floated) through brackets in the middle. Looking back from the muzzle, it would resemble the Starwars "Tie Fighter" design.

 

[Don]

Seb,

Congrats on what looks to be like a very interesting design. FWIW, over three years ago when McMillan was building their F-Class stock I suggested they experiment with what I called a "swallowtail" rear design, to run over a single, rear triangular hump. I've also suggested this design, alternatively called "upside down 'Y'", to four other stock-makers. None took the idea seriously...

I'm pleased to see you had the brains and creativity to actually build it!

Whether it meets the short-range rules or not, it may prove an important innovation.

While we're suggesting things I thought of creating a forearm that was simply two wood slabs on each side, connected by "bridges" or brackets. This would lower the barrel as close as possible to the bags and improve air ventilation. Imagine a "front catamaran" design with the barrel running (free-floated) through brackets in the middle. Looking back from the muzzle, it would resemble the Starwars "Tie Fighter" design.

Unfortunately, the short range forend rules do have shape limitations precluding convcave shapes, must be flat to convex...................Don

 

[sebastian]

Exactly

The rules say the forearm must be flat or convex.

(this is also why I cannot make the stock "as skeleton" as possible).

seb.

 

[sebastian]

Don

I forgot to say that I am surprised with your post/title!

seb.

 

[J. Pendergraft]

Seb,

Very nice work.

Do you have a picture of your rear bag or a drawing of what it will look like. I understood that you would have one large ear in the center of the rear bag.

Thanks.

 

[sebastian]

Joel,

Actually the rear bag would have two ears instead of one in the center. It would be just the same with my bigfoot bag, only with 3" spacing.
I still didn't make the bag yet, but I can make a sketch soon if you would like to know.

Imo, the catamaran heel would work better/maximum with two ears. I have tried to slide the stock on top of my standard rear bag, just on the top of the ears, but I feel it would ride better between two ears.

seb.

 

[-Yo-]

Seb,

I think the likely application for the slab-sided forearm design would be for varminters and F-Class. Max air movement, and the design could be adapted to AR style rifles with circular float tubes.

When I though of doing an upside down Y stock, there was some debate whether it would work best with one ear (in the middle), two ears (one on each side of the legs) or three (in a W configuration). Have you tried a prototype with a single, center ear?

 

[sebastian]

Yo,

The stock rides/slides just okay on top of the two ears of my standard rear bag. I squeezed the ears to the inside so the ears are close together...although not very stable, this is about the same with one single ear in the middle, imo.
However, I would make/put a weight in the empty space under the catamaran heel for HV match, so the bottom would be flat then. Refer to the space/size available under the heel, the weight would be around 3 lbs or a bit less, with s/s.

seb.

 

[Don]

I forgot to say that I am surprised with your post/title!

seb.

Seb, after having been involved with the BR game and the experimentation process for awhile, I have come to realize that "best design practices" drives alot of new innovation in this sport.............mostly because it is so hard to prove superior design thru instrumented or performance results because the improvements are so small and hard to distinguish. But when a new idea comes along that is easy to understand and is an improvement over existing configurations, than it is a no-brainer and others will adapt the new design.

The greatest factor that will cement this new design is when shooters see the actual gunstock as it sits atop the finished rear sandbag.............I garauntee you the light bulb will then go on.

Of course, executing the rear sand bag will be the next critical factor. Your catamaran legs with have to fit exactly in the mating radii of the ears and the flat top area of the rear bag surface in order to have maximum lateral stability, but I am sure you will get that correct.

Bag thickness and type of material might also play a critical factor in the area where the catamaran legs ride the bag surface. Material and thickness that allows for good guide groove depressions common to the legs will be ideal.........................Don

 

[Tony Z]

Don i have been using this stock in competition for about 18 months now. It was originally to be a VFS, LV and HV rifle, but because of its stability, especially during the loading and unloading process, i turned it into my 600 and 1K rifle. When l looked at making it, i kept to the conventional bunny ears type bags so as to not get into the area of bag alterations. My next one i am in the middle of making now will incorperate the offset fore-end aswell. Not as offset as that of Dave Tooleys concept, but somewhere between his and the conventional centre location.

Tony Z.

 

[Lynn]

Can Somebody

Post a picture or two for me? I can send the two pictures as a attachment.
Lynn

 

[Dave Tooley]

Tony

Once you go far right with the barreled action you'll never go back. Until you shoot one of my stocks, you have no idea how much torgue is generated in our long range guns. I've spent a year retraining myself to shoot. Yea I know, some would say I still can't shoot.
On our heavy guns they are just that, heavy. We have the width on the rear so we can add rails under the butt stock. We pound the rails down into the sand bag. We have 50-100 lbs. on our side to settle the gun into the bags.

Seb

Great idea. I think I remeber Walt Beger and HS Precision collaborating on a stock that was very similar. Want to say it was 2 1/4" wide. Have you ever tried to cut the legs on a 4 legged stool and get it to sit level?

Dave

 

[ShelleyDavidson]

Seb

The stock is looking really good. How about giving us a side view so we can look at that forend (from the side). Those holes and stuff forward of the trigger look pretty interesting.

Shelley