Rung barrel ?!!?

M

mooseribs

Guest
I recently bought an Anschutz 1712 light rifle for silhouette. While cleaning it I discovered a circle groove about 2 inches forward of the lands. :eek: I am surprised to find this kind of damage in a .22 barrel. I've been shooting anshutz for years and not seen this.
Is this common? :confused:
Rebarelling is not in the budget at this point so I may have to return the rifle to the seller.
If I continue shooting it what do I need to be concerned with. It actually seems to shoot okay...1 inch at 100 meters with Eley. I haven't noticed any flyers, but I also have not shot a lot of groups with it.
How could it get damaged this way?
thanks, :confused:
 
I am certainly not gunsmith but

I wonder what kind of pilot anschutz has on thier reamer.....if it actually is 2 inches in front of the lands it seems like a long ways for a reamer pilot. I would wonder if it has been that way since new. There are a bunch of good shooting rifles that a look inside the barrel would scare the hell out of you. If it shoots it shoots....I would still see if it might help get the rifle a little cheaper though.

Charlie
 
Thanks, It hadn't occured to me that it might be from new. I expect higher quality workmanship from Anschutz than damage from the reamer. But it could very well be. the rifling is missing at that spot and seems to continue 1/8 inch further down the barrel with the same twist rate. Strange.

Is it possible damage from bad ammo or a stuck bullet hit by another bullet? I would expect a bulge, but there is nothing obvious there.

Is this a problem that shows up on Anschutz rifles? :confused:
 
It could just be lead filling the grooves. Try a thourough cleaning with brush.
 
As I mentioned in first post, it seems to shoot about an inch at 100 meters, which I consider to be good for a rimfire. I use Eley Club Xtra. It does string vertical a bit, which seems normal for that ammo in most of my rimfire rifles. I have not shot a lot of groups. I mostly shoot it offhand in silhouette matches. I've run about a bric through it.
This is not leading. It is a definite circle at least the depth of the rifling if not deeper. Its hard to tell how deep the cut is.
This is my third Anschutz. I bought the others new without any flaws. I still have my 54, which is excellent. I am amazed that this flaw is in the 1712.
Thanks for the thoughts on the matter. :eek:
 
After thoroughly cleaning your bore, and if you don't have access to a bore scope, why don't you try "slugging" your barrel to see what that tells you. You can do this by very carefully, and let me repeat, very carefully removing a few bullets from their casings, preferably using either Federal UM-1's or Lapua "L's" since their diameters tend to be a little larger than the norm, but your Eley Club Xtra will do fine. Try not to deform the diameters too badly when removing them though as you want them as close to untouched as possible.

Now, hand feed a "slug" into the chamber carefully pushing it in as far in as you can with your thumb, take a cleaning rod with jag in place and slowly push the bullet through the length of the bore feeling for any difference in required pressure when doing so.

Keep in mind that if this is a factory Anschutz barrel you will notice a substantial increase in required pressure once you come within an inch or two of the muzzle since Anschutz adds "choke" to their bores and the bullet will have to compress more to pass through that area of the bore.

Once you think you have found something, measure how far into the bore the discrepency is and indicate it on your cleaning rod. Then, try pushing a slug in only as far as the place of discrepency, remove your cleaning rod leaving the bullet in place, then slowly back the bullet out by inserting your cleaning rod in from the muzzle end.

Examine the markings on each bullet you insert under as high a magnification as you have available to see what that tells you. If you have a problem, this should give you an idea of just how bad it is.

When you reach the spot you are speaking of, if the bullet becomes totally sloppy in the bore, then you should probably have a qualified gunsmith examine the bore for you, or send the gun back. But, if you can feel an even resistance when passing through that section as well, you most likely will be fine so long as the gun is shooting up to your expectations.

Dave
 
I have not done a proper slug check as you are describing. When I push a patch through on the end of a jag it tightens up as it enters the rifling the hits the dead spot where there is no resistance then re enters the bore and is normal all the way to the muzzle. The dead spot is 3 1/2 to 3 3/4 inches from the back end of the chamber. Subtracting 1/2 inch for the length of the case it'd be 3 inches into the rifling, approximately. I have not tried to measure how long the dead spot is, but it'd be perhaps 1/4 inch.
It is obvious to see when looking into the barrel with a good light at the muzzle end. I should have seen it before, but it is so unexpected in a gun of this quality I guess I just assumed it was okay.
I will slug it just to see how the bullet behaves as it pushes past the dead spot.
Good advise. Thanks.
I'm sure any self respecting gunsmith would tell me to get a new barrel.
 
slugged it with about 5 bullets. Interesting. It has a spot of no resistance where the cut is. Then feels tight right to the last 1/2 inche where it gets quite tight. Over all resistance is pretty consistant for feel.
The bullet has consistant grooves from the rifling. It does not seem to jump or double cut the bullet.
The cut goes through the rifling (lands) and the groove as well. It looks like it just barely cuts the groove. As I look at it more it seems more like a machining mark. I first thought it was a ring from ammo problems. Would it not look more stretched. The lands should not be cut through, but thinned out and expanded radially. They seem to be gone all together at that spot. Boy, a bore scope would be handy about now.
 
Rung Barrel?

Is this a new rifle,? If so, then rebarreling should not be at your expense.
If used then a price readjustment from the seller.
My guess would be a bulge caused by an obstruction of some kind in its past history.
I inherited an old BRNO from a deceased estate that had three distinct bulges. The owner used to store the rifle in a barn, never checked the bore prior to firing, and invariably evicted resident mud-daubers, ( wasps)
Your's may even be caused from oil build up and not patched out prior to firing.As you stated, a borescope about now would be great.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Don.H.
 
If the slug didn't find a loose spot when slugging, there isn't a bulge caused by bore obstruction, but may have been a bad spot in the drilling prior to rifling. If the rifle has been fired a lot, perhaps there was a soft spot in the metal that eroded over time.

I'd sooner think that the barrel drill malfunctioned than anything else.

Picher
 
Read post #9 again


"slugged it with about 5 bullets. Interesting. It has a spot of no resistance where the cut is."
Don.H.
 
If the spot in the bore was caused by firing with an obstruction in bore then barrel will be expanded on the outside. It will be a small expansion that you may only be able to detect by micing the barrel.

Since the riffling is light or absent in the spot this indicates the spot was NOT caused by an obstruction but was cut in there when the barrel was drilled or reamed. Probably the reamer hit a hard spot in the steel and as a result cut the bore slightly larger at that point. The riffling cutter or button would leave little or no impression in the large spot in the bore. I would be surprised if Ansuchtz wouldn't consider that as a defect in manufacturing and would replace it free of charge.
 
pacecil said:
If the spot in the bore was caused by firing with an obstruction in bore then barrel will be expanded on the outside. It will be a small expansion that you may only be able to detect by micing the barrel.

Since the riffling is light or absent in the spot this indicates the spot was NOT caused by an obstruction but was cut in there when the barrel was drilled or reamed. Probably the reamer hit a hard spot in the steel and as a result cut the bore slightly larger at that point. The riffling cutter or button would leave little or no impression in the large spot in the bore. I would be surprised if Ansuchtz wouldn't consider that as a defect in manufacturing and would replace it free of charge.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you missed the part where he stated it was 2 inches up from the throat.
 
Mooseribs, I suspect you're never gonna get a definative answer but I'd guess that durring drilling or reaming of that barrel either a big chip got lodged in the tool or a piece of the tool broke and formed a temporary obstruction before being carried away. Not entirely unheard of. If it shoots and does'nt foul to an unusual level it's not a killer. I'd be more concerned it it were at the chamber or near the muzzle.
 
Just shoot it

From what you have discribed, this ?? ring ?? hasn't affected the guns performance in your disapline. One thing you are correct about, is any and every gunsmith will say you need to replace the barrel. I wish mine 52, would shoot that small agroup at 100 yards.
 
I had an Annie 1416 a long while back I got from a friend. It shot beautifully at 50 yds and real tight groups. Pretty consistent fly killer. The first time I cleaned the barrel I noticed it would get about 2 1/2 inches from the bore and then the patch would slip (jump) with no resistance for a very short distance and would tighten up again and exit the bore. Never thought too much about it until one day I got curious and looked down the bore right after cleaning. I just about crapped in my pants when I seen a bright shiny little ring inside the barrel right before the bore area. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure how it got there. Some previous owner had a dud bullet stick out there then fired a round behind it. They probably got rid of it and my buddy ended up with it and it shot so well I got it from him. No, there was no way to tell it ever happened by looking outside the barrel. At best Pacecil might have been right that a mic would have shown something but in this case I don't think so. Strangely enough I had a gunsmith friend cut off the barrel and recrown it. The damned thing would still put real tight groups at 50. Amazing!! I traded it sometime later for a new Colt 45 Gold Cup.
 
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What Fred J said

I think an inch at 100 meters is pretty good. Maybe better than after you "fix it".
 
Tim...

You said: Perhaps you missed the part where he stated it was 2 inches up from the throat.

No I didn't miss that. There is no significance to where the defect is if it was caused by drill or reamer. Quit trying to pick apart every post I make, and in this case come in with your post which simply repeats what I said.
 
I don't think it was there from the factory. My dad got my younger brother a cheap old remington single shot to teach him with. We found a ring exactly as you described about two inches from the bore. Cut three inches off the barrel and there is NO DOUBT it goes deeper than the groves and IS NOT build up of any kind. Still not positive what caused it, but it wasn't there to begin with and the gun shoots better now that it's gone.
 
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