Referee Duties

Eddie Harren said:
Somehow, to me, those restrictions contradict "Unlimited".
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Ok, what would you like to be able to do to the Rifle in NBRSA Unlimited Class that you cannot currently do?

Since many shooters feel that shooting fast is the ticket in Unlimited, perhaps allowing magazines, or even gas operated actions, would fit the ticket.

The NBRSA looks at the single shot/single loaded mandate as more of a safety thing than a performance enhancer.
 
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FBecigneul said:
AU=Gold=Almost Unlimited
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Francis, it seems like this discussion is resurrected at least once a year, "Unlimited is not Unlimited".

So I go back to my question. With only two restrictions on the Rifle, ie, safely fired and an 18 inch barrel, what does everybody want to be able to do?

Would a shorter barrel give better agging capability? Would a "unsafe" firing mechanism, (what ever that would be), allow a shooter to put ten shots closer together?

The bench rules are in place because if you let shooters "attach" the rifle to the Bench, to what extremes would they go. When the Range Officer said "cease fire", would shooters be taking 15 to 20 minutes to get everything unbolted, loaded up, and out of the way for the next Relay?

If I just want to shoot little bitty groups to show people, I can do that at my home Range. But, if I want to actually compete in Registered Competition, I have to be realistic in the logistics of getting things set up, and moved, in a timely manner.

I am sure that the NBRSA BOD would be interested in any suggestions that would make "Unlimited" truly that, and further the basic mandate of The NBRSA in achieving extreme precision by shooting Groups.

All that aside, the real argument is not about Unlimited, it is really about not having a true open class for "non return to battery" Rifles, ie, Bag Guns.
The NBRSA took a step in that direction with the relaxed rules in Sporter. But it didn't take shooters long to figure out that with the 10.5 pound limit, you can't do doodly squat as far as enhancing the Rifles ability to produce small aggs.

So, the real argument should be a realistic Bag Gun option, say 17 1/2 pounds, with the only restriction that it cannot poccess true return to battery capability. Much like a light class 600-1000 yard Rifle chambered in 6PPC or an equally precision round in the 100/200/300 yarrow Format.
 
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FBecigneul said:
In order to have rules enforced to the degree some think they should be enforced would require a NASCAR, MLB, NBA, NFL type of officiating. Of course they would have to have a professional officiating corps. EEK. The fees to shoot would keep everyone away. I've said for years that we can't make rules that can't be enforced. I saw, and Wilbur will agree, a referee walking the line at River Bend lifting the fore end out of the front rest to make sure we were not clamping down on the fore end. It is an NBRSA rule, you know.
Check the winners and don't be afraid to check the consistent winners.
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That rule has been changed along with a number of other rules that make the sport a lot simpler. IMO, probably more need to be changed, but it's a start. In the NBRSA, no longer does the rifle have to be able to be lifted out of the front rest. The 1/4" deflection rule in the sandbags has also been removed. That particular rule would have been ridiculous to enforce and it's gone now. Not sure what all else has been changed, but probably a good idea to get the newest copy of the rule book if the latest changes are available.
 
rules

Randy, it's just me trying to understand how these terms come to be. I still struggle with "Semi-boneless ham". Does that sum-B**** have bone in it or not? LOL
 
Semi-boneless

John, don't take me seriously. Nobody else does. I just share some sort of connection with George Carlin and the "semi-boneless ham" was on his list of "dumb stuff".
 
Eddie Harren said:
John, don't take me seriously. Nobody else does. I just share some sort of connection with George Carlin and the "semi-boneless ham" was on his list of "dumb stuff".
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It's OK. I'd never heard of the stuff & Googled it, so as a compulsive, I had to post it.
 
Eddie

I think I am a rules person as rule people go but sometimes the degree of the enforcement seems ridiculous. The forearm width comes to mind. The Hunter stock must not exceed 2.25 inches. We then get a stock that has been painted three times and has stock tape on it. Calipers show it is now 2.258 inches and the shooter needs to be disqualified. That .008" doesn't amount to a hill of beans. If you measure with a measuring tape, you would say it was spot on at 2.25". That is what I mean as the degree of enforcement seems/is ridiculous. The scale has a one ounce factor but the width of the stock doesn't have a caliper factor. To answer your original question, I have been shooting IBS score since 2002 and until this year, I had not seen anything checked except weight on a Hunter gun, although I have been told what supposedly happened at a southern match this year. I know we need restrictions or shooters would go to extremes...give an inch and they take a mile...and rules are rules, but there also needs to be some common sense when enforcing some of them. Just how many of those 6x scopes are actually 6x and how would the average person be able to measure such?
 
Randy

I agree fully. I remember years ago at a match at Thurmont a good friend and a top HC shooter was shooting right next to me. We both had Burris HBR scopes. He looked through mine and asked what power it was. When I told him 6X he told me to look through his. after comparing the 2 we decided either his was an 8X or mine was a 4X. I compared mine to Saras and they were the same. we certainly have no control over the manufacturers specs or QC but, we do have a responsibility to avoid "bending" a rule.
 
If we travel to matches, and most do, the effect of being DQd becomes greater. Read the rules and make sure you're not breaking any of them regardless of how minor. Someday, somewhere, your rifle will be checked...probably when you are winning. Further, it ain't like a rifle can't win within the rules....and beat a rifle that's not.
 
Eddie Harren said:
How many Hunter Class shooters have ever been to a registered match and had a referee check their rifles to see that they conform to the rules?
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Yep. One time at Bowmanstown 6 or 8 ?? years ago, the stocks were checked to verify that they could be lifted freely from the front bag. I specifically remember Ricky Reed doing the inspection. Word was that the powers- to- be wanted to start enforcing the rule.The following match at Sulphyr Springs it was not even mentioned. It was back when Al Weaver and Vince Pastorella were still shooting.
 
trust

I shoot this game and love it , I am always checking my stuff, gun, rest or anything else. If I have not EARNED that fake wood then I DO NOT WANT IT. a man's word and hand shake are the most important thing a person can have. When you can order $500. worth of bullets (BIB) then pay for them after you get them, tells me a lot about a fellow. And you know as well as I that it will come back to you. You can lie to yourself but you can't lie to GOD.
 
Rules

I like them, don't always agree with the wording, but my job is to obey them when I'm at a registered match.

The fact that many are not checked by the refs often is related to small shoots just not having a lot of horses to pull the wagon. Refs are volunteers, they are shooters most of the time and are busy trying to shoot well. At bigger shoots sometimes more things are checked against the rules. If they are, so be it. If they aren't my job is still to operate within the rules. Its the gentlemanly, honorable thing to do. Like the other poster said, a trophy isn't worth crap if you didn't honestly win it. JMHO.
 
Most folks are not real cheaters....their rifles have simply not been checked in so long they believe they are within the rules.
 
coondogkid said:
[A] man's word and hand shake are the most important thing a person can have.
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EDIT -- Story of a church-oriented person's cheating removed at the request of person who relayed the story to me.

I think most folks are honest -- when they see it as being in their best interest (at least in the short term). In a society where everyone violates traffic laws, and half the marriages end in divorce, and probably untold thousands cheat on their taxes -- be careful of a "man's word."
 
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Here is a real world senario that is clearly a rules violation, but the cupibility of the shooter was not to deceive anyone.

It's a VFS match. The shooter shoots a 30 caliber Rifle in the 100 yard, and decides to switch to a 6 mm at 200. He tells several people, ( just in conversation), but fails to inform the official scorer through a referee.

Of course, when his first target is scored, it is obvious he changed calibers. He says he simply forgot to inform the correct people.

Should he be DQed?
 
I would say no. I am not sure that he violated any rule. The edge of the bullet hole is used to score...regardless of caliber. Of course I may be wrong. James
 
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