Powder Scales @ Shortrange Benchrest Matches

Update: Just now, I brought in my range kit, and clamped my Sinclair powder measure stand to my desk, and clamped my Harrells Deluxe measure to it. ( bottle of " 05 133 about half full) I threw two sets of ten fast throws into my Forster powder funnel ( the one that is also the reservoir for their powder measure) and dumped it back into the open top of the powder bottle and set the measure set to 53 1/2 clicks (about half way up the neck of a fired 6PPC case with a fast dump). After that, I carefully threw and recorded ten charges, counting them all. The ES of the weights was an even .2. I hit +- .1 exactly. I should add that the technique is one of a couple that do well for this powder in this measure. I picked it because it was the one that I used at the range yesterday, and was curious as to how well I was probably throwing. One thing that I like about the Acculab is the hole in the hinged dust cover. I can set a case on the platen through it, using the scale with less concern about room air currents.
 
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mike in co said:
nice comments taken out of context 2 of three times.

please note.....THE ISSUE is N133 and THROWN CHARGES. not what a lab scale can do, nor about 0.001 of anything else.

so another time...
n133 in thrown charges is typically PLUS OR MINUS 0.2 WITH OCASSIONAL PLUS OR MINUS 0.3.
that is not good, it aint even close.
the fact that guys win throwing charges of n133 is:
A) a testement to excellent shooting skills and
B) the large sweet spot of n133.
so, you can drag in as much other nonsense as you want, muddy the waters with bs, but thrown charges of n133 is the issue.

mike in co
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Observations for Mike in Co:
The original question of this thread was how many shooters are “using digital scales at a competitive match”
Since you do not compete at short range matches (“other than your own club shoots”), nor do you load at the range (also based on your previous statements to Bashful), nor do you own or use a Chargemaster (which I do own, like very much, and use at the home reloading bench). What gives you the knowledge or experience to tell other competitive Benchrest shooters that they all need to buy a Chargemaster or use a digital scale at the range to check their power charges when using N133 or any other powder?
Do you ever need to change your powder load at your Club matches when the temperature goes from 50 degrees in AM to 90 degrees in PM? If so, how do you accomplish this, since you preloaded all your ammo at home.
I might be wrong, but I’m sure there are several competitive benchrest shooters in Aurora area that would meet you at your club to have a friendly competition with your “AR’s that outshoot PPCs!”
 
Lime Green. I visited the Shamrock in Dublin Ga (MGGOA) today. I didn't take my glasses, but I looked and observed loading equip. I only saw 3 chargemasters (of course I didn't look in all the motor homes). Some I did. I ask people if I could go pee pee (use their restroom) but I was really doing undercover chargemaster hunting.. Had a great time.
Jim Carmichael shot a potential LV Agg world record,, low .13agg. He must have covered his green machine , because I didn't see it.
HFV
 
atleast get the info correct,
taking stuff out of context is just a waste of time.
i do shoot in short range, at club matches, so you are wrong when you say i do not.
this opening statement by you sets your agenda and truthfulnes....just go away.
if you read , i have beaten 6ppcs with my ar's..i did not say i came in first. if you do research you will discover i came in 6th, but i beat all the rest of the ppcs ....if you continue reading and do some more searching on these forums, you will see what i have said is correct. i never said all shooters should get a chargemaster. i did suggest if one had good skills and wanted to get better, and was shooting n133. then a charge master was an advantage. and that is based on years of info, most of it posted here about what works and what does not.
i do not shoot n133 in a 6ppc...
but i own n133, and have done a bunch of research on throwing powder...bottom line n133 sucks in thrown charges...compared to several other powders...oem8208 , imr8208..and others.

when you come back with some facts( try doing some reading first) and have something positive to add....fine, but just questioning me on things that have been covered multiple times is just a waste of bandwidth..sorta like you....

mike in co

RJC said:
Observations for Mike in Co:
The original question of this thread was how many shooters are “using digital scales at a competitive match”
Since you do not compete at short range matches (“other than your own club shoots”), nor do you load at the range (also based on your previous statements to Bashful), nor do you own or use a Chargemaster (which I do own, like very much, and use at the home reloading bench). What gives you the knowledge or experience to tell other competitive Benchrest shooters that they all need to buy a Chargemaster or use a digital scale at the range to check their power charges when using N133 or any other powder?
Do you ever need to change your powder load at your Club matches when the temperature goes from 50 degrees in AM to 90 degrees in PM? If so, how do you accomplish this, since you preloaded all your ammo at home.
I might be wrong, but I’m sure there are several competitive benchrest shooters in Aurora area that would meet you at your club to have a friendly competition with your “AR’s that outshoot PPCs!”
Click to expand...
 
Hey Mike...we're havin a UBR match down here in Kaintucky this weekend, bring that AR on down and shoot some...ya hear! I'll be using my Detecto baby scale
By the way, we are trying to get a care package of barrels for those 6PPC guys you beat with that AR, some will have rifleing left in them.
 
you error greatly in your post...i would NEVER shoot at an ubr event..as it is not A match but several small matches .
only people that cannot win in a real match would consider shooting at different targets in a single event as a match..not me
but thanks for the invite.....
did you miss the part earlier where i pointed out that i work weekends......

mike in co
MarkR said:
Hey Mike...we're havin a UBR match down here in Kaintucky this weekend, bring that AR on down and shoot some...ya hear! I'll be using my Detecto baby scale
By the way, we are trying to get a care package of barrels for those 6PPC guys you beat with that AR, some will have rifleing left in them.
Click to expand...
 
It was just a friendly invite Mike...to let those AR's shine a little! You are obviously ignorant of the quality of shooters and their rifles that play around down here shooting these "non matches". Too bad that you are so closed minded to say something so mean and nasty about something of which you know so little (typical). Shows why so many shooting sports are not doing too well recently. :eek:

mike in co said:
you error greatly in your post...i would NEVER shoot at an ubr event..as it is not A match but several small matches .
only people that cannot win in a real match would consider shooting at different targets in a single event as a match..not me
but thanks for the invite.....
did you miss the part earlier where i pointed out that i work weekends......

mike in co
Click to expand...
 
if 6 ppc's are so great, why does one need to handicap a shoot so they can win ?
plain and simple, 30's kick thier butts, so they created a new set of rules that ALLOW 6's to win.
everyone likes to win, there are lots of 6's so heck yes they show up...but it aint no competition, it aint no race.
its a handicap event...because they will not show up if they have to go heads up to a 30.
....i'm just the opposite of your comment..i am very open minded..its why i can see what a joke the format is.
i would not consider ubr a shooting sport.......
since you do not seem inclinded to do any research, let me point out that i have been on this forum for over 12 years. that i have worked/developed my br ar's for more years than that.
the steps and improvements have been documented.
you have a nice day
mike in co
 
mike in co,

UBR is bringing real shooters to real ranges, plopping down real money, sending real bullets down range into real targets, winning real fake wood and having real fun doing it. In short, it's really successful.

What have you done lately that is comparable? Or do you just have a serious case of sour grapes?

Greg J.
 
I thought UBR was a great idea. IF I understand it correctly.
Consider it this way. Leave out ppc or br or any other flavor.
If you had a .40 a .30 a 6mm and a .22 IF IF all were exactly equal in accuracy then the .40 obviously holds a greater edge in hitting the x or 10.
.30s being more accurate than a 6ppc in some things in some hands yes. Jackie almost had a world record with one.
Some say the 22ppc is quite a bit more accurate than the 6ppc. Fact is most dont shoot it because of the sporter requirement and shooting just one caliber at least for SRBR.

There are many sports shooting included that handicap certain things.
I used to shot IPSC back in the 80's and if you shot a 9mm you were handicapped.
 
tell me one bechrest/target rifle match that handicaps ??
no three gun no ipsc/idpa....
target rifle....
the nra/cmp/dcm tried for a year or two and nearly had a revolt......

just MY OPINION..
ipsc was minor/ major...you were ONLY handicapped if you MISSED an "A" shot...as long as you shot "A"'s no big deal.
so not quite the same....i shot 9MM's and shot lots of A's
i also shot 9 major when it was allowed.....135gr at 1300 fps.....21 rd gun.....

mike in co
 
SO ONE LAST TIME...
why i think ubr sucks.
the two major centerfire br organizations claim to strive for ultimate rifle accuracy, ubr is not only not ultimate, it is not even close. if i shoot a 30 and i out shoot a 6ppc i can still lose because the 6 has a handicap ADVANTAGE. its not about ultimate rifle accuracy.....its not about the ideals of BENCHREST, it is stricktly about ALLOWING 6's to appear to beat 30's...nothing else.
if you like THINKING you can beat a 30 in score with your 6...then ubr is the game for you......

mike in co
 
Can someone tell me why it is the NBRSA and the IBS dont allow .50 cal in the score shoots?
 
Vern said:
Can someone tell me why it is the NBRSA and the IBS dont allow .50 cal in the score shoots?
Click to expand...

IBS Long Range shoots limit cal. to 40 and I do not recall Group and Score having any limit. It is all about target frame damage.
The club I hold matches at prohibits .50 cal firing on any range.

Dick Grosbier
 
Additionally,
I am not even going to argue as to if they are accurate or not, but would you really want to be shooting a free recoil .30 three or four feet away from a guy shooting a .50. Doubling with that would probably put your shot into the next target.
 
Mike...talking to you is like whispering up a mules a$$. You are so negative and closed minded that it is not worth my time trying to have a conversation with you. Have a good day up there in Colorado ole buddy.

mike in co said:
if 6 ppc's are so great, why does one need to handicap a shoot so they can win ?
plain and simple, 30's kick thier butts, so they created a new set of rules that ALLOW 6's to win.
everyone likes to win, there are lots of 6's so heck yes they show up...but it aint no competition, it aint no race.
its a handicap event...because they will not show up if they have to go heads up to a 30.
....i'm just the opposite of your comment..i am very open minded..its why i can see what a joke the format is.
i would not consider ubr a shooting sport.......
since you do not seem inclinded to do any research, let me point out that i have been on this forum for over 12 years. that i have worked/developed my br ar's for more years than that.
the steps and improvements have been documented.
you have a nice day
mike in co
Click to expand...
 
i'll have to take your work for that("is like whispering up a mules a$$")...i have no experience there, and i'm thinking you have some first hand experience...
mike in co
MarkR said:
Mike...talking to you is like whispering up a mules a$$. You are so negative and closed minded that it is not worth my time trying to have a conversation with you. Have a good day up there in Colorado ole buddy.
Click to expand...
 
Something I worked with last season, after some tinkering:

bm3.jpg


Ran this test about 20 times with H4198. This is the scale I take to the range with me, even though I don't weigh each charge. The weights were also checked on both an accurate balance beam scale and a lab grade digital. While this scale doesn't technically have the ability to resolve to this level and the exact weight of each individual charge wasn't the same when measured on the better scales.....the individual variance of each charge was the same on the higher end scales as on this smaller one.

bm2.jpg


I think of digital scales like chronographs. When you're shooting over a chrono that has a 1% error factor, you know those single digit spreads aren't real. But you also know that you've got to be in the ball park to get those kinds of readings.

Good shootin'. -Al
 
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