Powder Scales - Electronic

Last Fall, I took a chance and paid $200 for a new RCBS Chargemaster 1500 Combo that, according to the owner was not reading correctly, nor was it repeatable. The problem with it was evidently the owner. I read the instructions :)rolleyes:) and after setting it up in my draft free reloading room, it operates perfectly. It's the BEST reloading investment I ever made (besides my Lee Collet Neck Sizer). Once set to "Automatic", all I need to do is set the pan on the scale and it automaticly drops another charge. It is a dream to use...:D
 
A couple of years ago I was using a Tanita battery operated scales when the scales started throwing 3 grains more powder than the reading showed. I didn't catch it because I was using a load that didn't come close to the case neck and had no problem with the scale before. I was using a max load to start with and the 3 grains caused the case to seperate at the rim. The dual port rifle put the force back in my face. Enough brass and force came back in my face through the left loading port to have me bleeding like a stuck pig and I would be blind if not for the glasses I was using. The primer never pierced and the bolt stayed in place.When I got out of the hospital I found that the low battery Indicator didn't come on soon enough and new batterys made the scales work fine. Now I only use battery operated scales after I weigh on the beams. I look more carefully at my loads and try to use loads that come close to the case neck so over loads can be idenified better and I shoot only right port actions. I hope this helps.
 
Plugger

What was the caliber, load, and rifle/action that you used?
 
Cal.-6BRG(modified 6br). It should have been 30 gr AA2015, 105 Berger, BAT sv action.
 
Plugger said:
Cal.-6BRG(modified 6br). It should have been 30 gr AA2015, 105 Berger, BAT sv action.
Click to expand...

Thanks - what does this say about the strength/safety of the BAT action*? Can only a 3 grain (10%) overage cause a life threatening mishap?

Isn't a good action supposed to be designed to handle significant overloads (safety factor)????
?????????????

*And I am NOT picking on BAT actions in particular - I regard benchrest actions as the cream of rifle actions. What are we missing here?
 
One of perils of using a powder that is fast for a particular application is the possibility of a catastrophic overload, sort of like using 4227 in a PPC, it might give good accuracy, but I wouldn't want to go there. When you talk of a 10% overload, it usually means from some reloading manual load. Is that load in a manual?
 
It says a lot about the strength of the Bat action

Sonof A. Gunn said:
Thanks - what does this say about the strength/safety of the BAT action*? Can only a 3 grain (10%) overage cause a life threatening mishap?

Isn't a good action supposed to be designed to handle significant overloads (safety factor)????
?????????????

*And I am NOT picking on BAT actions in particular - I regard benchrest actions as the cream of rifle actions. What are we missing here?
Click to expand...

It would seem to me the action did handle the pressure , but the case couldn't !
 
Boyd Allen said:
One of perils of using a powder that is fast for a particular application is the possibility of a catastrophic overload, sort of like using 4227 in a PPC, it might give good accuracy, but I wouldn't want to go there. When you talk of a 10% overload, it usually means from some reloading manual load. Is that load in a manual?
Click to expand...

So, his powder choice was too fast?

"Is that load in a manual?" I don't know; we must ask Plugger.

"It would seem to me the action did handle the pressure , but the case couldn't !"

Sounds reasonable, but shouldn't the action be designed to SAFELY vent the overpressure and avoid injury to the user? In this age of liability, how can actions be designed otherwise?
I'm wondering if the heavy weight bullet might have something to do with it - greater mass/inertia to overcome.

Could lead to a new thread - which actions are best designed from a user's safety viewpoint?
 
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I use to have

A BAT 308 HBR rifle. I once inadvertently loaded 5 rounds with n-130 instead of n-140. The load made a tiny hole in the paper for 5 shots but it toatled all five Lapua cases, taking the primers completely out of them and streatching them to the point where they wouldn't fit into the shell holder; not even close.

There was no damage to the BAT action or bolt. The rifle still shoots superbly.
 
I believe that in blowing out the Lapua brass where part of the shoulder ends up being body and part of the neck ends up being shoulder can't but weaken the case a bit. You have to leave a few thousands between the barrel face and the bolt face so the pressure goes to the weakest point where in this case was in that gap. The BAT sv doesn't have a vent hole in the side of the receiver like some actions but I'm not sure that would even have been enough in this case ;it couldn't have hurt though. I had a gunsmith put such a hole in the front right side of a Rampro receiver some years ago because whenever you pierced a primer the firing pin would come back at least 3/8 of an inch and jam. After the hole was drilled in the bolt and receiver it never happened again. So some extra safety features could be added to various custon actions that maybe the makers didn't think of or not thought necessary. And no, there is no loading data in any manual for the 6mm BRG. You have to wing it working up from 6BR data.
 
Electronic Scale problems

After reloading some 223 rounds my brother and I decided to sort the assembled cartridges by weight (approx 184gr)

We started off with a Lyman DPS 1200 and when I rechecked some of the cartridges the readings were different by up to .4 grains :confused:

Thinking it was the scale I got my RCBS Rangemaster and sorted them again, similar results !! :eek:

We tried it zeroing on a cartridge then sorting by weight difference and by zeroing the scale and separating by actual weight.

We compared between scales and found they often differred by .2 and oncen in a while .3 grains

My brothers reloading room is draft free with a very solid and level bench. I have lost all confidence in these scales for anything closer that .4 grs. :(

Is there a solution or do we have to go back to the 10-10?
 
Ax238 said:
They are the only way to go. And the RCBS Chargemaster is in a class by itself. Trust me, you won't look back.
Click to expand...

I just bought my Chargemaster 1500, and used it for the first time this weekend. I was AMAZED!!!! I took a few of the rounds out to shoot with them, and they were all RIGHT ON.... I can not believe I waited this long to get one.
 
mastiff54 said:
After reloading some 223 rounds my brother and I decided to sort the assembled cartridges by weight (approx 184gr)

We started off with a Lyman DPS 1200 and when I rechecked some of the cartridges the readings were different by up to .4 grains :confused:

Thinking it was the scale I got my RCBS Rangemaster and sorted them again, similar results !! :eek:

We tried it zeroing on a cartridge then sorting by weight difference and by zeroing the scale and separating by actual weight.

We compared between scales and found they often differred by .2 and oncen in a while .3 grains

My brothers reloading room is draft free with a very solid and level bench. I have lost all confidence in these scales for anything closer that .4 grs. :(

Is there a solution or do we have to go back to the 10-10?
Click to expand...

Why are you weighing the assembled cartridge?. The electronic scales adverise +- .1, that accounts for .2 of your error. If you weigh your bullets, primer, charge and cases prior to assembly, and get the advertised accuracy, you have four areas for a possible .2 grain error, applying simple matmetics that adds up to a possible error of .8 grains. I weigh my cases and charges on a Chargemaster and have found their accuracy to be as good as possible considering the price.
 
mastiff54 said:
After reloading some 223 rounds my brother and I decided to sort the assembled cartridges by weight (approx 184gr)

We started off with a Lyman DPS 1200 and when I rechecked some of the cartridges the readings were different by up to .4 grains :confused:

Thinking it was the scale I got my RCBS Rangemaster and sorted them again, similar results !! :eek:

We tried it zeroing on a cartridge then sorting by weight difference and by zeroing the scale and separating by actual weight.

We compared between scales and found they often differred by .2 and oncen in a while .3 grains

My brothers reloading room is draft free with a very solid and level bench. I have lost all confidence in these scales for anything closer that .4 grs. :(

Is there a solution or do we have to go back to the 10-10?
Click to expand...
Assembled cartidges will vary that much and it is not likely the powder charge that is the culprit , go back and weigh your empty cases.
 
I can vouch for the MXX 123.

I load to the single kernel of powder........ which means that I add or take away one kernel to make weight. The 123 easily and repeatably registers the single powder kernel. Using the 123 in conjunction with a thrower it's faster than the Chargemaster but a lot more work. I've got a Chargemaster on my wish list :)

I keep mine inside and use it only for preloading. I don't think that bringing out and setting it up on the tailgate would work out well. I've had a Lyman and a Dillon and wouldn't bother with an electronic to replace them. I would use a balance beam if it wasn't for the ease and accuracy of the MXX unit.



Brient, that Durascale site is cool. Thanks for the link.

al
 
I must have written my post poorly

Thanks for the lead on the Durascale MXX123. Definately worth looking into.

I have also learned that AC voltage fluctuations, static electricity and cell phones will affect the electronics in these units.

I was not asking why there would be a difference between cartridges - I know quite well that all components will vary. That is why we sort each of them before reloading, and thankfully my math comes up a lot different.

The problem that I am referring to is the very same cartridge will weigh up to .4gr different each time I set it on the scale. Not between different cartridges - the very same cartridge. That should not change unless there is some law of physics I am missing.

Why did we weigh the assembled cartridge? - because we wanted to learn about the variation tht comes from progressive loading. We sorted 100 assembled cartridges after progressively reloading them, as an experiment in accuracy, investigating the uniformity of the thrown charge from the RCBS progressive press.
 
The best of "Reloading" scales

Will vary in their reading; not unlike powder measures. It amazes me that we get the accuracy we do considering what we have to work with. I guess our barrels are a lot more forgiving than we realize.

I like my RCBS Chargmaster. Wish it were faster in the automatic mode and wish the trickle mode was a bit more controled but it is the best thing I have found to date. I use RCBS measures, which are dirt cheap used and throw close to the desired charge sometimes when I load. I have found this method faster than using the Automatic mode. I trickle with my fingers, also faster than the power trickler. My fingers won't throw too much powder sometimes like the Chargemaster. All and all though I believe one can not beat the Chargmaster.
 
one with a 17 rem

my dad (passed 2 yrs ago) bought a 17 remington from a buddy who loaded with electronic scales. the rifle came with 20 or so loaded rounds, & the guy was an accomplished reloader... anyway the 17 blew a primer right off the bat, so all bullets were pulled reloaded of a balance scale. back then the word was they (electronic scales) were prone to variation because of magnetic fields created by other appliances, wire in the walls & many other causes. Back then i remember literature saying a battery operated version would better.. also they have to "warm up" the contact points. best to leave them on all the time rather than turn them off. It seems to me that the electronic scale is very sneaky about when it makes a mistake?? Back then everybody knew somebody who's electronic scale had malfunctioned negatively. Supposed to be great in the correct environment.

Do any of em have a "we never mess up" guarantee.? I guess my 10-10 don't either.

kirk
 
I keep a case next to the pan with its weight written on it. I also periodically check random cases on the block and when I'm done with a run I again check 4-5 random loads.

The hardest thing with this setup is finding an easy way to transfer powder from the scale pan to the case. I have several different funnel setups and for my compressed loads I must reach up over my head to dump the powder, tiring.

Pete,

I watched the videos on 6MM BR.com and another video I think on the RCBS site. Unless they're slow I can beat them handily, 30% at least.

I too throw and trickle with my fingers. I've learned to seed from 1 to 5-6 kernels perty handily and can nail the weight to the kernel 50% of the time.

Taking kernels out is the slowest, I've used several little plastic tweezers and scoops but the quickest way yet is with my latest plastic RCBS funnel/tray I can pinch up 2-3-4-5 grains and drop back in the remainder.

I DO want to try the Chargemaster but I've talked myself out of it so far ;)



BTW, I've seen the Chargemaster advertised as "accurate to the tenth of a grain"...... Is this "plus-or-minus" or a tenth total? anyone care to share? Using H4350 this translates to either 5 or 10 kernels accuracy as a kernel of H4350 normally reads as .02gr.



al
 
For better consistency

Kirk Ethridge said:
my dad (passed 2 yrs ago) bought a 17 remington from a buddy who loaded with electronic scales. the rifle came with 20 or so loaded rounds, & the guy was an accomplished reloader... anyway the 17 blew a primer right off the bat, so all bullets were pulled reloaded of a balance scale. back then the word was they (electronic scales) were prone to variation because of magnetic fields created by other appliances, wire in the walls & many other causes. Back then i remember literature saying a battery operated version would better.. also they have to "warm up" the contact points. best to leave them on all the time rather than turn them off. It seems to me that the electronic scale is very sneaky about when it makes a mistake?? Back then everybody knew somebody who's electronic scale had malfunctioned negatively. Supposed to be great in the correct environment.

Do any of em have a "we never mess up" guarantee.? I guess my 10-10 don't either.

kirk
Click to expand...

I bought a line conditioner or, I should say, a battery backup that has a line conditioner in it. I believe the conditioner has made my Chargemaster more stable. That is to say, the tare weight reading doesn't vary much when the scale is unloaded. The things we do for LOVE, eh ?
 
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