NBRSA members

Wilbur

Wilbur, I was not thinking of the NBRSA website to be used as a forum, merely a vehicle with which the suggestions could get to the directors.....no viewable content.
Issues that merit consideration could be posted there in a question....like
"Should windflags be allowed to be closer than 10 feet from the firing line?
Enter your membership # and click yes or no. Voting on this issue is open from 6/10/09 to 6/15/09
Post the notice on BRC and get the pros and cons going prior to the voting dates and see what happens. Vote totals could be posted on both sites, but discussion only on BRC.
Bryan
 
JerrySharrett said:
Back to your original request, firstly I don't totally understand what you are asking. Thick I guess.

Question is, are we providing the input you need?
Click to expand...

My question was aimed at how the individual NBRSA member thinks the process works as in taking an item from concept to completion. A few folks have responded directly but it seems that most prefer to abstain, or like Dick, simply didn't understand the poorly worded question.

The absence of response can be considered overwhelming response if you think about it.
 
Wilbur

I am one who spoke but probably never answered your question.

What we have is a representative democracy, a Republic, if you will.

We elect our Leaders to vote for our desires, and we trust them to show good faith in governing.

If they do not, we always have the option of voting them out.

I feel that this is much better than a "true Democracy, because sooner or later, in a "true Democracy", what you usually end up with is mob rule.

The one big catch in our system is if you do not vote, then you can't complain. Many shooters feel like that since they are not able to attend the annual meeting, whether it be Region or Nationals, they are cheated out of the right to vote.

What can we do about this?? I honestly do not have a solution. Perhaps this web site can be of service in that regard.

I do stand by my statement that the system is delibertly difficult to change so as to guarde against the whims of the moment. ........jackie
 
New Member

Wilbur, I am a new NBRSA member but have read this site a long time and have even read sections of the rule book. As I understand the change process, it is:
1. Members present at the regional meeting discuss items they might like to see changed. If the group or an individual person feels strongly enough, then someone moves that their director take "such and such" recommendation and present it to the board of directors at the national directors meeting. After a second and discussion and possible wordsmithing, a vote is taken. If the majority of the shooters at the regional meeting vote yes, then that director is to take that motion to said national directors meeting and present it there as a motion.
2. When that director presents the motion at the national directors meeting, if it gets a second from another director, then there would be board discussion; possible word smithing, and eventually a board vote. If the majority of the board votes affermative, then the item will go to the membership present at the national event.
3. At the national membership meeting, the item will be voted on by the membership present at the national meeting. If approved, it then enters the rules.

I think this is close to the present procedure from what I have read and seen discussed. Now, perhaps I can give what myself or others see as possible flaws in the process that might or might not be addressed.

1. Some folks don't seem to know when or where or if their regional meetings occur. This probably could be laid at the feet of that regional director. However, I do understand the problems of the position given the pay received.
2. Some people perceive that their regional director may not present their motion properly at the national board meeting and even might vote against it. This leaves them automatically feeling let down.
3. Some people feel the board is ruled by "Old Fogies" who are not interested in making any sort of change and thus their wishes or motions still do not get proper consideration.
4. Some people feel that since they might not have any chance to attend a National event, then they still do not have a chance to make their voice heard at the national meeting and voting.

Concerns 1 and 2 need to be addressed by strong local action. You gets what you pay for.
Item 3 is probably a good hing as it does provide for a reasonable screening / filtering process to keep the wildeyed changes from happening.
Item 4 might need some scrutiny. When I pay my dues and join NBRSA, then I go to the line and shoot against any member who might be there no matter their stature in the sport. (and I have no problem with that). But, if that is so, then my vote should be considered as well. So maybe there should be some way to get ballots distributed to the entire membership rather than those in attendance at the Nationals who choose to atend the national meeting.

I do understand that I did get a vote in the beginning of the process at the regional meeting. Its just the perception that I cannot vote in the second vote if you want to call it that.
Hope this helps or is close to the type of feedback you are looking for.

Joe Duke
 
Charles... Gonna challenge you right back.

I have been instrumental in running most of the matches at HARRISON, MI since 1991. Holton is about 115 miles West of here. I haven't even been to Holton in several years. If you want a feel for our matches, read the match reports and comments... there's a current one here right now.

In my post I was speaking of 100 & 200 yd. centerfire benchrest. That's what we shoot with a little rimfire thrown in.

All our matches are one day affairs and they are both group and score. We have always scheduled them around the two day affairs of which there are only a few each year. For years we filled up the summer with one day matches by shooting them almost every weekend when there were no big matches.

Re: Factory rifle... we had 30% to 40% of our shooters in Factory Class for many years. That changed downward last year with the $4.00 fuel.

I was amused to find out that when our Eastern Region Director was running for his office that those supporting his opponent ran against him by characterizing him as a "Score Shooter". It seems that that is a dirty word in some circles. Really amusing was the year he ran is also the year he won "Benchrest Shooter of the Year" and was inducted into the Benchrest Hall of Fame. Some score shooter, Eh?;)

Dick
 
Joe !!

That's exactly what I was looking for - even better!

As a heads up, equipment and course of fire items are the only changes that require membership vote at the annual NBRSA membership meeting. Certainly, the directors are sensitive to the voices there but are not obligated to add, rescind, or change the rules based on any "vote" at the meeting. The obligation is to rescind or make permanent any equipment or course of fire change implemented at the previous board meeting based on the majority vote. Anything else would (and sometimes does) render the regional efforts you described prior to the board and membership meetings ineffective to say the least.
 
Wilbur

Thanks.

"Anything else would (and sometimes does) render the regional efforts you described prior to the board and membership meetings ineffective to say the least. "

I understood this completely. I have served on boards.

It appears to me that the Gulf Coast region has a very good director.
 
The process is slow, antiquated and not at all representative. Many members are disenfranchised by the process. It appears to be designed to stifle progress and necessary change.
 
Bob

Why do you say "not at all representative"?

I don't have the guts to ask about the slow and antiquated part...
 
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I scream. You scream. We all scream for...

The novel idea has been put forth that the Gulf Coast has a very good director. This is in direct contradiction to the view expressed by numerous Texas law enforcement agencies and quite a few church pulpits in his home town. Recently a litter of starving kittens left his home in disgust after he tried to feed them Scotch instead of milk; especially that stuff he drinks. This is not mere rhetoric. I have proof of the Gulf Coast director's capricious and arbitrary nature. At a Gulf Coast meeting I purposed a modest change to the meet format. Between the matches swimsuit models in bikinis would walk in front of the benches holding aloft large cards with the number of the upcoming match just like they do on TV wrestling shows. Placed strategically on their swimsuits would be a picture of a target with a really small group in the middle. The word screamer would be printed in block letters over the target. This idea was immediately met with loud acclaim by all the members at least those drinking the margaritas I had provided ( In Washington DC this is known as lobbying). Our elected director at first tried the ruse of ignoring the increasingly vocal wishes of the membership and then finally backed into a corner he stated: "No. There will be no Screamer Girls at the Gulf Coast matches". He refused to change his obstinate position despite pleas to reason and common sense, the raising of the specter of impeachment and, ultimately, thinly veiled death threats by those who had consumed the most margaritas. Our director then fell back on his long experience in smoke filled back room and bedroom politics. He said: "Fine. I'll resign. You can become director and you deal with this loony idea." He fixed each of the ring leaders with his steely yet somewhat unfocused DIRECTORS GLARE. Support for my idea evaporated like good groups in a gale. I scurried for cover like a cockroach caught in the open. A hastily convened caucus of supporters of the idea fueled by more margaritas decided to magnanimously give our director another chance and withdraw the idea.
Despite our ethanol addled brains and the passion of our conviction we all knew in our hearts the truth: It is far easier and much more fun to agitate then lead. Tim
 
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Lou,

You're right... Wilbur did address it to NBRSA members.

You know, I practically never hear from you. When I do I always have a strong feeling that someone else put the words in your mouth.

I wonder why that is?

Dick
 
Dick,

Dick Wright said:
You're right... Wilbur did address it to NBRSA members.

You know, I practically never hear from you. When I do I always have a strong feeling that someone else put the words in your mouth.

I wonder why that is?

Dick
Click to expand...

Far be it from me to defend Lou, but either pay your dues to BOTH organizations, or stay out out of any discussion germain to either. Put up or shut up!

David
 
I know who Dick Wright is but who is Lou Murdeca and David Haliblom? Sounds like they are mad at someone and for what?? I'm new here but I belong to the NRA, IBS and NBRSA all.
 
Ken

David Halblom and Lou Murdica are Region Directors who sit on the Board of Directors of The NBRSA. Dave is the Director of the North Central Region, and Lou the South West Region. They are the men who actually vote on the stuff that we politic about here on the Forum.

I would say that puts them in a pretty good position to inquire about business that concerns the NBRSA..........jackie
 
jackie schmidt said:
David Halblom and Lou Murdica are Region Directors who sit on the Board of Directors of The NBRSA. ..........jackie
Click to expand...

WOW, impress me, :eek: they really, really, actually do for sure sit on the actual Board of Directors, :cool: so then, this gives them the right to be rude and insulting to Mr Wright :confused::confused: Is this the prevailing attitude of the NBRSA management :confused: I see now why the Wilbur ask the original question :mad:
 
Glad to hear that Lou is....

Southwest Regional Director. Maybe he can solve a problem that Precision Shooting has every year.

The Cactus is one of the matches that count toward Shooter of the Year points. EVERY YEAR after the match Brennan finds it almost impossible to get the match results from Lester or Gary or who ever is responsible for match results. He can't count the points if he can't get the freakin' results, can he?

I spent an hour on the phone last week with Brennan trying to find a way to get the results for the 2009 Cactus off the internet. Apparently there's none on the NBRSA website. (Wilbur, you might put that on your list of things that need correcting.)

Anybody that knows Brennan as well as I do will tell you the same thing... He puts up with just so much nonsense. If you want your match to continue to count toward SOY you might wanta get off your dead butt... etc, etc.

Dick
 
Membership

This would be a good time for me to encourage all Benchrest Shooters to hold a membership in both the IBS and the NBRSA.

The object is to encourage extreme accuracy shooting.

I would also encourage many of the posters in this thread to go back and read what you have written. Many times, what you are wanting to say is clouded by less than cordial wording. How many good ideas have been ignored because those that are reading the post can't get past what they see as rude behavior.

Remember, this Forum is read by the entire World. when you choose to come on line and comment, that is exactly how the World precieves you.........jackie
 
Ken Worth and others:

Ken,

One could see how a few comments could lead one to believe that the management of the NBRSA comes across that way. But, please understand that there is a lot of history and some issues currently brewing that could "shake up the benchrest establishment". And this can sometimes cause emotions to get in the way of logic. Everyone has an idea of what direction that they personally want to see benchrest take. But, dovetailing history with the future is never an easy task.

And the representative democracy that the NBRSA is makes some of these issues STRUCTUALLY difficult to address. When one doesn't see how their vote gets considered, people feel disenfranchised. All we can do is work the issues and try the best we can to make the sport as good as possible. And we need to communicate - positively, if at all possible.

I probably know Dave, Dick and Lou as well as anyone in this sport and all of them want to see the sport progress. Every one of them are good people with a lot of time and energy invested in this sport. Lou and Dave are directors and spend considerable time and energy trying to represent their respective regions. And Dick is a longtime writer and on the board of PS Magazine, as well as a match director forever here in Michigan at one of the great local ranges (that shoot both group and score) that has sent many shooters in benchrest on to greater achievements.

I applaud Wilbur for wanting to get feedback on how the membership views the process. I have viewing this thread very closely. Here in the Eastern Region of the NBRSA the emotions regarding a couple of issues get amplified more so than West of the Mississippi. There are several proposals being looked at regarding VFS added to our score-shooting program, the sporter class, and how our two great organizations fit with each other. And at the end of the day, I hope that whatever direction is taken benefits bechrest better as a whole. Even so, someone is going to get bent out of shape if the direction doesn't fit their personal vision. That's just human nature.

The IBS and NBRSA diverged in 1969. (I'm somewhat astounded that we are still beating each other up over this 40 years later.) Both took slightly different, but yet similar paths to trying to get their respective memberships served. The only way I personally handle this is try and understand both organizations and approach every issue from the perspective that the real strength in both organizations lies with the shooters and the ranges. And people vote with their pocketbooks and their feet. I think of this a lot and am constantly reminded of these issues at every match I attend.

I guess I am more concerned that if we don't start working together with all of the politics that is occurring outside of our sport that we may be focusing on ourselves way too much. There are way too many people outside of benchrest that would like to see our sport go away.

Ken, if you want to discuss this, call me at (313) 247-4344 or e-mail me at Krooppc@aol.com. I don't know what region you live in, but you can discuss this with me or any other regional director. The dialogue can be healthy.

This is the greatest of all the shooting sports and we just need to work a few minor issues out and do our best to further the sport.

Joe Krupa


PS If you don't know who I am, contact me and I will give you a brief background of my involvement in shooting benchrest.
 
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