Mac McMillians' LV .009 World Record Is Under Assualt

I hope it was a muggy day there when the target was shot,,,the paper would be saturated with moisture and then would dri out and shrink a lil' bit and perhaps end up under .009",,,,Records were made to be broken,,,good luck Mike,,,,,Roger
PS,,,I saw Mac's target when it went thru the reecords comitteman here ,,I think it measured .014" here ,,,but so did the one hole that was shot in the sighter!!!!....the paper had swollen here from the moisture (90% RH),,,I think it measured larger every where it went because of the paper wicking up moisture as it traveled around the country,,,,,If memory serves me rite it was range measured in Arizona at .000 !!! ,,,
 
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Butch Lambert said:
So this means that even if it is a .0000 it will not be a new record?
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Butch I remember years ago someone giving reasons as to how the .009" record could not be broken due the way the measurment rules were written. I can't remember the reasons given nor did I ever follow up and actually read the rules at the time. The way I read the current rules is if the new potential record is within +.009" or smaller than the curent record it can be submitted for official measument. Also the way the current rules read to me is if the new group/agg is smaller than the current record it becomes a new record. Now that's just the way I read it and I could be wrong.
 
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bryan said:
If it measures .009 OVER the record, it deserves scrutiny by others........if it measures .001 UNDER the existing record, by the committee, it is indeed the new record.
BA
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Gotta agree with Bryan on this point.
 
Congrats Mr Stinnet

All the best and I hope you can clinch the record . Tim Sellars
 
Record Update

FYI,

I have been informed that Mikes potential world record backer has checked out and the group is
"small enough" to be measured by the record committee.

The targets have been sent to the measuring committee for scutiny.

All we have to do now is wait....
 
If my memory serves correct

If my memory serves correct Mac's record was eventually x-rayed or at least photographed in some fashion and the larger than life image measured. Can any one confirm this ?

If there is some truth in that will this record be subjected to the same treatment.

Whilst on the subject of measuring very small groups does anyone think we will eventually progress from using the human eye and a mechanical device to get an average of the group size.

Thanks for your thoughts
Andy.
 
expiper said:
I hope it was a muggy day there when the target was shot,,,the paper would be saturated with moisture and then would dri out and shrink a lil' bit and perhaps end up under .009",,,,Records were made to be broken,,,good luck Mike,,,,,Roger
PS,,,I saw Mac's target when it went thru the reecords comitteman here ,,I think it measured .014" here ,,,but so did the one hole that was shot in the sighter!!!!....the paper had swollen here from the moisture (90% RH),,,
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I remember a discusion here about Mac's group. Some said the target was in the frame upside down and there were five shots on the sighter portion and one on the record. They said everyone was dead who was there at the shoot. Now expiper surfaces and maybe he can put that controvesy to bed. I hope so so credit can go where it should.
Brush
 
Bob Brushingham said:
I remember a discusion here about Mac's group. Some said the target was in the frame upside down and there were five shots on the sighter portion and one on the record. They said everyone was dead who was there at the shoot. Now expiper surfaces and maybe he can put that controvesy to bed. I hope so so credit can go where it should.
Brush
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If Roger saw the target as it made it's rounds amongst the scoring committee, he was hundreds of miles and hundreds of hours removed from when the target was on the frame. How in the world could he know it's orientation when shot?

The only people who could have answered this question were the target crew at the range. Once the target was pulled, no one could know if it was upside down or not, unless the backer was both marked for orientation & cut out & sent with the target.

There are lots of stories. There is another that at that range, on that bench, there was a way to put a shot through the backer without it's going through the target.

Forget all this stuff. McMillan's record is official.
 
Bob Brushingham said:
I remember a discusion here about Mac's group. Some said the target was in the frame upside down and there were five shots on the sighter portion and one on the record. They said everyone was dead who was there at the shoot. Now expiper surfaces and maybe he can put that controvesy to bed. I hope so so credit can go where it should.
Brush
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There is no controversy. The group went through the proper procedures and was verified as a record.

Most of the naysaying came out of the fact that the group was part of an agg that was dead last in that yardage. But in Benchrest, we recognize individule group records as being just as important as aggregate records.

I hope Mikes range measurements hold up to the very meticulous process that insures that records are indeed just that.
 
Francis

There were at least 9000 shooters in attendance when Mac McMillan shot his amazing group. Most shot at a bench next to him, and saw that he had only one shot in the record target.:confused: Good shooting...James
 
Thought for Andy Cross

Andy, I believe a device called an optical comparator would accurately measure the target if you wanted a more accurate device then the usual calipers. Anyways I was there and signed Mike's group as a referee. It was a rush to see the smallest or second smallest group ever shot. Mike, when you hang that sucker up in your new shop use at least a 100 watt spotlight to shine on it. Tim
 
Sorry to open a can of worms I was hoping to resolve the issue. Any ways I am happy for Mike and may he shoot many more like it or smaller.
Brush
 
Questioning the records, the integrity of the system, or the integrity of competitors has no "add value" to Benchrest Shooting.
 
Eddie Harren said:
I agree Wilbur but...... if everybody was honest, in this sport, there would be no need for moving backers.
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Actually, that "but" seems to be the point of your post, so maybe you don't agree with Wilbur.

As to your example about backers, you've never had a Dirty Harry moment? Real small group. Seven empty cases on the benchtop. You *think* you fired two sighters, but maybe it was three... You make a decision, the backers tell if it was right or not.
 
bak em up

I agree that they(stationary and moving backers) are necessary,,,not only to prove honesty but to avoid mistakes,,,a few yrs ago I was a referee at Faifchance for the Nationals and there were a few times the backers were used to answer protests,,,,one VERY prominent (Hall of Fame) competitor shot a 9 shot group at 100 yds that cost him dearly ,,,,there were several who petitioned for me to give the group a "second" look for the missing shot,,,I replied that I did everthing I could to find any indication of a 10th shot,,,,it just WAS NOT there....believe me I know how important this is,,,,(no 4 gun,,and out of the running in UL),,,,,later in the day the shooter with the 9 shot group came to me and said ,,,I admire your conviction about my group earlier today,,,and I counted the sighters on the target and the empties ctgs that I had to re-load and I could hav only shot 9 of em on the record target,,,,I have nothing but respect for him and his honesty,,,,it was a typical Fairchance day,,,,swithching and let ups that had him and the rest of us going bak and forth from the sighter with regularity,,,,,I mysef have lost count a cupla times and the target crew always came and asked if I "lost count"...I so far have caught it and shot 6 or 11,,,just in case,,,hahahaha.....Roger
 
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Eddie Harren said:
I agree Wilbur but...... if everybody was honest, in this sport, there would be no need for moving backers.
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Benchrest is about unequivocal proof of the five/ten shot group.........which is why we have the moving backer system.

How many groups on target look like one hole and only show 1, 2 or maybe 3 bullet marks. If we didn't have the moving backer would our groups mean any more than the reports of factory rifles that can consistently shoot groups in the 1's and 2's??

I agree with Wilbur, Mac's record is a record and nothing (except someone shooting a smaller group) will change that fact........I have to question peoples motive for wanting to question it and throw mud at the sport we participate in.

Ian
 
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