Laser for setting flags
- Thread starter RLHBUSL
- Start date
G
Glen Oakes
Guest
Just curious
But, has no one seen the minutes of the 2010 NBRSA Annual Board Meeting for 9/24/10? If not, you might want to get a copy. The part pertinent to this thread says:
(Item No. 7, excerpted from the minutes) --
7. Re: Using Lasers for Setting Flags on a range: There is definitely a safety problem involved in the use of lasers. The Board agreed that each Club’s Match Director should decide if they want to allow the use of lasers at their club due to that safety problem. The Board voted unanimously to NOT allow the use of lasers to set flags at NBRSA National Competitions.
I thought you guys might want to know this.
Glen
But, has no one seen the minutes of the 2010 NBRSA Annual Board Meeting for 9/24/10? If not, you might want to get a copy. The part pertinent to this thread says:
(Item No. 7, excerpted from the minutes) --
7. Re: Using Lasers for Setting Flags on a range: There is definitely a safety problem involved in the use of lasers. The Board agreed that each Club’s Match Director should decide if they want to allow the use of lasers at their club due to that safety problem. The Board voted unanimously to NOT allow the use of lasers to set flags at NBRSA National Competitions.
I thought you guys might want to know this.
Glen
jackie schmidt
New member
Darn, Glenn, I gotta get out more.........jackie
Vern. If you can't go to the Super Shoot. I will see ya at the Nationals.
My point is Green lasers do not cause permanent damage. Looking the Sun or weld flash causes more harm.
I work around 8000 watt lasers with Helium and Argon cover gas. And I wear safety glasses. Never been flash burned. 10 yrs. worth.
The light emitted is less than Stainless Steel TIG. My eyes have a natural squint around Stainless TIG.
And it's real easy to avoid the light. Don't stare at it. Just keep walking....
We don't shoot in dark cock pits at night. Most ranges I have been to, cease fire, is at dusk.
Those new solar powered auto darkening hoods are nick named "Flash Hoods". And after welding up some flag poles. I understand why. They are not quick enough in switching. But, I have my safety glasses on. Not a problem. Don't hear anyone trying to outlaw them.
My point is Green lasers do not cause permanent damage. Looking the Sun or weld flash causes more harm.
I work around 8000 watt lasers with Helium and Argon cover gas. And I wear safety glasses. Never been flash burned. 10 yrs. worth.
The light emitted is less than Stainless Steel TIG. My eyes have a natural squint around Stainless TIG.
And it's real easy to avoid the light. Don't stare at it. Just keep walking....
We don't shoot in dark cock pits at night. Most ranges I have been to, cease fire, is at dusk.
Those new solar powered auto darkening hoods are nick named "Flash Hoods". And after welding up some flag poles. I understand why. They are not quick enough in switching. But, I have my safety glasses on. Not a problem. Don't hear anyone trying to outlaw them.
Vern
Morethan1waytoskinacat
Well zippy you seem to ignore all the facts presented by Stiller and others.
Stick with your opinions and ignore science and facts.
And no one in their right mind will be walking around with specialty safety glasses that can protect against lasers.
But then opinions are like bodily orifices every one has one
Read up they have been outlawed at the nationals.
Stick with your opinions and ignore science and facts.
And no one in their right mind will be walking around with specialty safety glasses that can protect against lasers.
But then opinions are like bodily orifices every one has one
Read up they have been outlawed at the nationals.
Last edited:
Boyd Allen
Active member
Man, this thing has legs. Are you sure that this isn't a Calfee post in disguise 
Shall we switch to parallel nodes, and stopped muzzles? We could set a record.
Shall we switch to parallel nodes, and stopped muzzles? We could set a record.
Vern
Morethan1waytoskinacat
Hey its either that or Stephen Perry. I have never spoken to Calfee so I cant speak to that one.
But this thread is pretty much dead as far as anything else. It seems that there was enough scientific evidence given for most intelligent people to comprehend that they could lay aside opinions and deal with reality, and even proof that the NBRSA has dealt with the issue as far as the National match goes, that maybe they think that other ranges would follow their decision. Anyway Im done.
Figure maybe I should put someone on ignore since there is very little of value been offered here other than opinion.
But this thread is pretty much dead as far as anything else. It seems that there was enough scientific evidence given for most intelligent people to comprehend that they could lay aside opinions and deal with reality, and even proof that the NBRSA has dealt with the issue as far as the National match goes, that maybe they think that other ranges would follow their decision. Anyway Im done.
Figure maybe I should put someone on ignore since there is very little of value been offered here other than opinion.
Zippy06, you seem to know all there is about lasers. As a test to prove that green laser of only 100mw wont hurt your eyes, a good test would be too look into one directly for 5 or 10 minutes, with your safety glasses on and tell us all about it. (seriously, I am kidding).
The thing that bothers me about your posts is that you try to assure the masses that there is no danger. How would you feel if one of your kids or best friends followed that great advice you give, mainly because you are a laser expert because you use high power CO2 lasers that cut metal, and looked into a laser and had permanent eye damage? I really doubt you are trying to mislead anyone and intentionally hurt someone, so I have to assume you just dont know a damn thing about wavelengths, power density, watts/cm, coherance, human eye effects etc. If I am wrong and you are trying to hurt someone with your advice, then hopefully what comes around goes around as they say.
A CO2 laser compared to a green laser is like comparing a cutting torch to a pair of tin snips. Both cut metal, dont work the same. CO2 lasers have very high power output in very high wavelengths, 10600nm. They are basically like a very precise plasma cutter. Very high power FOCUSED by a lense made for high band IR materials, such as zinc selenide, germanium or galium arsenide. Most of these lens you cant even see through. They cut metal by focusing energy on a small surface, super heating the plate and cutting it. Any brightness you see is the metal glowing, not the laser.
On the flip side, if CO2 laser energy hits a piece of glass that a human eye can see through, NOTHING HAPPENS, except maybe heating it up if high enough power. You eye cannot focus it on the retina etc. Worst case the outside surface of the eye feels the heat and thats about it. That is why you wear safety glasses only. The laser energy reflected wont hit your eye because the safety glass you see through is like a wall to CO2 wavelenths, and any sparks or debris wont hit your eyes because the safety glasses do their job. The green laser is just the opposite. Your eye focuses any point source to a sharp point on your retina, that is what the lens in an eye does. You take the 100mw or so of laser energy, focus it down to a .001 diameter circle, and you get a damn high energy density, enough to burn the retina and cause permanent damage. Regular safety glasses do nothing, they only look like a window and pass it on.
Whether you like it or not, there is a safety and assumed liabilty of using these. I suggest that anyone sued over using one in the future states that good ole Zippy knows his stuff and will be happy to cover any damages incurred.
The thing that bothers me about your posts is that you try to assure the masses that there is no danger. How would you feel if one of your kids or best friends followed that great advice you give, mainly because you are a laser expert because you use high power CO2 lasers that cut metal, and looked into a laser and had permanent eye damage? I really doubt you are trying to mislead anyone and intentionally hurt someone, so I have to assume you just dont know a damn thing about wavelengths, power density, watts/cm, coherance, human eye effects etc. If I am wrong and you are trying to hurt someone with your advice, then hopefully what comes around goes around as they say.
A CO2 laser compared to a green laser is like comparing a cutting torch to a pair of tin snips. Both cut metal, dont work the same. CO2 lasers have very high power output in very high wavelengths, 10600nm. They are basically like a very precise plasma cutter. Very high power FOCUSED by a lense made for high band IR materials, such as zinc selenide, germanium or galium arsenide. Most of these lens you cant even see through. They cut metal by focusing energy on a small surface, super heating the plate and cutting it. Any brightness you see is the metal glowing, not the laser.
On the flip side, if CO2 laser energy hits a piece of glass that a human eye can see through, NOTHING HAPPENS, except maybe heating it up if high enough power. You eye cannot focus it on the retina etc. Worst case the outside surface of the eye feels the heat and thats about it. That is why you wear safety glasses only. The laser energy reflected wont hit your eye because the safety glass you see through is like a wall to CO2 wavelenths, and any sparks or debris wont hit your eyes because the safety glasses do their job. The green laser is just the opposite. Your eye focuses any point source to a sharp point on your retina, that is what the lens in an eye does. You take the 100mw or so of laser energy, focus it down to a .001 diameter circle, and you get a damn high energy density, enough to burn the retina and cause permanent damage. Regular safety glasses do nothing, they only look like a window and pass it on.
Whether you like it or not, there is a safety and assumed liabilty of using these. I suggest that anyone sued over using one in the future states that good ole Zippy knows his stuff and will be happy to cover any damages incurred.
We have physics of lasers and we have histological information from an actual eye exposed to a green laser of defined power(and low power at that) for a documented period of time. Not much more to say, unless we need to go into the physiological function of the cells of the retina(complex and rather boring).
It sounds like my dog in the hunt(that this be evaluated and a determination be made before the sport may be hurt by an incident)is already being evaluated. Green lasers are likely a very efficient way to set flags. If allowed, the unaware need to be informed of their use at the vary least. An appropriate pair of safety glasses specific for the wavelength will not break the bank for anyone and whether or not they are required by the range or parent organization they will become part of my "kit" unless the range I am shooting at expressly forbids green lasers.
An interesting discussion to say the least(like Boyd mentioned, sure a lot of "legs" on this topic). At the vary least it is something to think about as we approach the season(some of us are lucky enough to be shooting already...I'm not one of those.)
It sounds like my dog in the hunt(that this be evaluated and a determination be made before the sport may be hurt by an incident)is already being evaluated. Green lasers are likely a very efficient way to set flags. If allowed, the unaware need to be informed of their use at the vary least. An appropriate pair of safety glasses specific for the wavelength will not break the bank for anyone and whether or not they are required by the range or parent organization they will become part of my "kit" unless the range I am shooting at expressly forbids green lasers.
An interesting discussion to say the least(like Boyd mentioned, sure a lot of "legs" on this topic). At the vary least it is something to think about as we approach the season(some of us are lucky enough to be shooting already...I'm not one of those.)