Labradar

[mturner]

Bill

alinwa said in a previous post
"I can actually show you in real time how much velocity a SINGLE KERNEL of various powders is worth"........
bill

The thing I look at here is this. He said in real time, so to me that means if we run the actual test, we can see how much difference it makes at that time, under those specific test conditions. Just remember that the difference a single kernel can make is one extra kernel, or one less kernel. If one less kernel is minus 2 fps, and one more kernel is plus 2 fps, then we can lower our extreme spread by 4 fps.

When I get a chance, I will get my scales out that have a resolution of 2 thousandths of a grain, and I will count out a 100 kernel sample of LT30, and maybe do the same for N133, and give you some real numbers. The N133 has much more variation per kernel than the LT30, so that is why I want to count out a minimum of 100 kernels to represent the average kernel size and weight. I will then give the exact calculation of fps per kernel for my 30-30, and for the 6PPC. I can tell you before I begin that the fps per .1gr on the 6PPC is double what I see with the 30-30. When chronographing Durward's 6PPC, we saw a 60 fps average increase with .3gr, but only saw a 30 fps average increase from .3gr with the 30-30. Remember that these calculations will be based on the rifles and conditions at Raton, NM during the Rattlesnake match this past August.

Michael

 

[CMaier]

As i recall he shot local club, and shot one registered match in raton that another shooter paid for.
He also won the 600 NBRSA 600 LIGHT GUN SCORE CHAMPIONSHIP in 2015 and everyone politely ignored that.

So maybe his opinion does matter at longer distances.

I shoot even less.

Then again, Sgt., there are those who type and those who shoot competitively. Some times I shoot competitively and some times I'm not too competitive. MikeInCo has never shot competitively and seldom in competition. That's possibly why we don't see him here any more. He was the guy who said you needed a scale that measured to the .0002 grains or something like that. There are some, or at least one, that posts here who must live in an area of 30 hour days to do as much as he does as well as eat, sleep, and do other things that normal people do. Or, that's where I'd have to live. In this day of political correctness, I can't use actual names. We know you, Bill Larson, and Mike Turner shoot in competition. Time will weed out all but the most extremely bullheaded on this forum. What does one kernel of powder weigh? I don't know but I can score a score target and measure a group target and I do shoot them.
Since this is a Labradar thread I should mention I don't own a Labradar and I have not use a Labradar. I did see Bart Sauter using one at River Bend at a sanctioned NBRSA match that I attended and shot.

 

[Bart]

Wow Guys!!!

I want to thank everyone for an entertaining post! I just wish we could have saved it for this winter when cabin fever sits in. Al your squirrel example is the best!


FWIW I've probably used the Labradar as much as anyone especially in competition . Over the past year I have shot a full schedule of short and mid-range "group and FClass" (600) and even 1000 yard matches. So I have dabbled in the "Dark Arts of the Long Rangers". I've also had the Labradar on the bench durning practice and at every match this year. Here are some of my thoughts and observations.

Thoughts and observations!

Extreme spreads of 10 Fps are fairly easy to achieve with a good gun and scale. To cut down on ES sorting brass by weight can help. Sorting cases by volume is better. But sorting brass by using the labradar is the best.

You cannot achieve consistent ESs if the ignition of your rifle is screwed up. So achieving good extreme spreads is a great test for that.

A low ES does not mean your gun is tuned. It only means your loads are consistent. You can have great ESs and shoot horrible groups at any range.

Are low Extreme Spreads important at short range? Yes, but probably not for the reasons you're thinking. I've shot low zero groups with extreme spreads of plus 40fps. I've seen shots not make the hole any bigger at 200 yards with 70 Fps differences. However our rifles shoot best when they are on the ragged edge. Low ESs help me stay on the ragged edge without falling off as often. The same is true for mid and long range.

Just because you have low extreme spreads at the house doesn't mean you have them when shooting a competition. A lot of this depends on how you shoot and how many rounds you shoot. In general the more rounds you put down the rifle the more velocity you'll get. Also erratic starting and stopping between shots will significantly effect ES.

If you are a 1000 yard shooter you actually need low extreme spreads. A difference of 15 Fps will change the bullet path by about 3.0 inches according to my ballistic calculator. At 600 yards the same 15 Fps will change the path by around .8 of an inch. At 100 and 200 yards the 15 Fps there is no difference in the bullet's path. Once again according to my ballistic calculator and what I've seen on paper.


Bart

 

[CMaier]

thank you Bart!

 

[adamsgt]

Me too Bart

Bask to Labradar. I've only used mine at two of the three clubs where I'm a member. The one I use the most has installed four banks of steel baffles on steel posts and high concrete walls on either side of the range. I had difficulty getting consistent bullet acquisition on this range and readings past 60 yds. When I finally went to the range way out in the country, it has no baffles or obstructions between the Labradar and the target. I got much better results there including 100 yd data. So the local environment plays a part in performance of the radar.

You said that you have used the Labradar in competition. I never thought about that because I come from many years of NRA competition where electronic devices are not allowed forward of the ready line. Did you have any issues in getting the Labradar set up and aligned during a relay change? When I use mine at the local ranges I seem to be fussing with it to get it capturing the bullets so I wonder how distracting that might be during a match.

 

[Bart]

Bask to Labradar. I've only used mine at two of the three clubs where I'm a member. The one I use the most has installed four banks of steel baffles on steel posts and high concrete walls on either side of the range. I had difficulty getting consistent bullet acquisition on this range and readings past 60 yds. When I finally went to the range way out in the country, it has no baffles or obstructions between the Labradar and the target. I got much better results there including 100 yd data. So the local environment plays a part in performance of the radar.

You said that you have used the Labradar in competition. I never thought about that because I come from many years of NRA competition where electronic devices are not allowed forward of the ready line. Did you have any issues in getting the Labradar set up and aligned during a relay change? When I use mine at the local ranges I seem to be fussing with it to get it capturing the bullets so I wonder how distracting that might be during a match.[/QUOTE

Once I ditched the base that comes with it things got a lot easier. It took up way too much room on the bench and was a pain to move around. With the base in the picture I just set it on the bench and aim it at the target. When the range master starts the tape. I reach over and arm it. Reguardless of what sensitivity level I've used it will still pick up shots from other shooters. The good news is they are crazy numbers like 2020 fps so once I get back to the camper I can clean up the data. But capturing my shots has not been a problem.

 

[adamsgt]

OK, looks like you've attached it to a good sized chunk of aluminum stock or is it something heavier?. I might have some pieces like that at my shop. How did you attach the Labaradar to the block, drill & tap the top? Oops. the Labradar has female threads on the bottom so did you just drill a hole through the block?
I've been weighting the base plate down with a couple of 5 lb ingots of bullet alloy. I didn't see any provisions to make vertical adjustments so, I'm assuming you've had no issues there. I think the problems I had with vertical alignment came from using the 3 DOF tripod mounting head. I'm using similar rechargeable power packs as they seem to be plentiful these days. Thanks for the picture, that helps a lot. I'm heading up to Trinidad CO Wednesday morning so I'll dig into setting my Labradar up similar to yours when I get back. Looks like you've been following the KISS principle. I never seem to start out that way.

Bask to Labradar. I've only used mine at two of the three clubs where I'm a member. The one I use the most has installed four banks of steel baffles on steel posts and high concrete walls on either side of the range. I had difficulty getting consistent bullet acquisition on this range and readings past 60 yds. When I'm finally went to the range way out in the country, it has no baffles or obstructions between the Labradar and the target. I got much better results there including 100 yd data. So the local environment plays a part in performance of the radar.

You said that you have used the Labradar in competition. I never thought about that because I come from many years of NRA competition where electronic devices are not allowed forward of the ready line. Did you have any issues in getting the Labradar set up and aligned during a relay change? When I use mine at the local ranges I seem to be fussing with it to get it capturing the bullets so I wonder how distracting that might be during a match.[/QUOTE

Once I ditched the base that comes with it things got a lot easier. It took up way too much room on the bench and was a pain to move around. With the base in the picture I just set it on the bench and aim it at the target. When the range master starts the tape. I reach over and arm it. Reguardless of what sensitivity level I've used it will still pick up shots from other shooters. The good news is they are crazy numbers like 2020 fps so once I get back to the camper I can clean up the data. But capturing my shots has not been a problem.

 

[Bart]

Yes, it's just a chunk of aluminum with a hole drilled through it. It has bit of a counter sink to for the bolt head! Easy Peezy!

Bart