Is This Rifle Unsafe??

jackie schmidt

jackie schmidt

New member
A good friend showed up at our local range yesterday with one of those new king size AR's chambered in 30O SUM that he had just purchased. We all took a good look, and gave our thoughts on just what would happen when he touched off the first round. This is the first one I have seen.

It was loud, but the recoil, (no muzzle brake), didn't seem half bad.

But,upon examinimg the cases, every one showed a sheared piece of brass where the pressure had extruded the face of the case back into the ejector hole drilled in the bolt face, (just like a Remington will do), and one case had a pierced primer.

He was shooting 180 grn Factory Remington ammo, which appeared to be way too hot.

This seems strange, as this rifle is surely designed to shoot Factory loads.

He said he was just going to send it back and get a refund, he sort of fell out of love with the thing pretty quick.

Is this a common occurance with gas guns chambered in these big super boomer rounds,or is there a bit of miss-engineering here??........jackie
 
Remember numbers (ft/sec) sell factory ammo.....
It's even printed on the side of the box.

I guess the lawyers haven't figured this out yet..
 
Andre

please do not think I am "copping out", but I would rather not say.

This could be a problem the Factory Specs of this ammo is simply too hot. It is no secret that the entire familly of "UM" chamberings is loaded in the 60,000 psi range.

Do the usual Factory offerrings have a generous free bore to take care of this?? Do manufacturers make the barrels on the "loose side'??.

I ask this because perhaps this manufacturer did not take some of these things into account. Or maybe not.

But, it is pretty obvious that something is amiss.

If you look on the box of real Weatherby Ammunition, it says, '"for use in Weatherby Rifles only" Maybe a similiar warning should be furnished with the purchace of this Rifle. 'Do not use Factory Loaded Ammunition'........jackie
 
It'd sure seem to me that the rifle's maker would have function fired their rifle with some factory loads before shipping it out. Standard with most AR's in other calibers I think, and a lot easier than getting a bunch of rifles back that failed to function. Obviously not in the case of this rifle.

I've seen a factory bolt rifle chambered for 7mm Rem Mag that would not chamber a round of factory ammunition. The chamber was apparently too short or too small in diameter near the shoulder, but the bolt wouldn't go anywhere near closing. It was made in Germany or Austria (can't remember) where I thought all guns had to be proof tested before they were released. Maybe only those for domestic consumption though.... :eek:
 
Larry Elliott said:
It'd sure seem to me that the rifle's maker would have function fired their rifle with some factory loads before shipping it out. Standard with most AR's in other calibers I think, and a lot easier than getting a bunch of rifles back that failed to function. Obviously not in the case of this rifle.
Click to expand...

In the world of the black rifle this isn't common anymore. I've seen various reasons but most seem to relate to cost. It just simply costs too much to proof fire each weapon as it rolls off the line. I have heard from several salespeople from the distributors I work with that they are batch fired now. But that is a hit or miss proposition.
 
Taking a statistical sample of something is theoretically okay, but in things like firearms it's a pretty shoddy practice IMHO. I'm sure it's justified by cost, but it'd seem that it wouldn't take too many returns to eat any savings right up. But that's just the way I'd do things, and I'm a poor businessman as my wife has pointed out to me more than once. :eek:
 
Does this particular rifle have an adjustable gas block ? I know some come with that option ,but it depends on Manufacturer. This could be something worth looking into.
 
Jackie,
My brother and a friend each have one and I have not seen the problem you describe in either. They are both DPMS, is the rifle you are talking about a DPMS or Armalite?
edit: sorry Jackie I didn't see that you didn't want to identify the mfg.

James
 
jackie schmidt said:
Do the usual Factory offerrings have a generous free bore to take care of this?? Do manufacturers make the barrels on the "loose side'??.

I ask this because perhaps this manufacturer did not take some of these things into account. Or maybe not.
Click to expand...
No, that is not the case. WSM's by sammi spec have zero freebore. Not only can you touch the lands with any bullet, you have almost no choice in the matter. All bullets are seated deep in factory rounds for wsm's.

As a rule, most all facotory ammo for wsm's are at the upper limit. If a person has a custom wsm, I'd say to never shoot a factor round in it. No matter if it fits or not. Rounds intended to go in a 346-348 neck, tend to go ka-fluie when shot in a 334 tight neck. Especially with a boatload of 748 in em.
 
Dpms lr-30s

Is anyone offering a AR-10 clone in 300 WSM other than custom shops? I've only seen them in 300 SAUM. (DPMS, Armalite, ???).

The 300 SAUM has about 40% more bolt thrust for the same pressure as the 308 Win. The DPMS LR-30S (300 SAUM) does use a different bolt and barrel extension than the LR-308. How much stronger it is I don't know. I've not heard of any reports of failures of a LR-30S. Anyone?

It's interesting that the LR-30S has been removed from the DPMS website. I don't know the reason. There are no 300 SAUM specific parts listed any more except the magazine and they're out of stock. So much for product suppport.

I own DPMS LR's in 260 Rem, 308 Win, 300 SAUM and 338 Federal. My advice is that if you want an AR-10 with longer range and better ballistics than a 308 get one in 260 Rem or 6.5 Creedmoor.

DPMS only offerd the LR-30S with a 20" bull barrel which in my opinion was a poor compromise.
 
Thats funny!

Maybe a similiar warning should be furnished with the purchase of this Rifle. 'Do not use Factory Loaded Ammunition'........jackie :D :D
 
Louis,
I am not sure what is going on with the DPMS 300 RSAUM it is my understanding that they have dropped the complete rifle but are still making the 300 RSAUM uppers, they are available right now ready to ship at Midway USA.
I had heard that Armalite dropped the 300 because of reliability issues, I have not seen any reliability issues with the DPMS.

James
 
Guys send me there hunting rifles all the time to be dialed in & I have seen the 30O SUM and the 300 WSM do this a lot with factory ammo!! I have not seen this problem in the 270 or 7mm. Go out and buy 6- 10 boxes of different ammo and see for your self.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Chisolm said:
Louis,
I am not sure what is going on with the DPMS 300 RSAUM it is my understanding that they have dropped the complete rifle but are still making the 300 RSAUM uppers, they are available right now ready to ship at Midway USA.


James
Click to expand...

They may have been, but a few minutes later (now) the Midway site says "out of stock, no backorder". Good thing, it would have cost me $900 if they'd had one. My guess is that DPMS is only filling existing orders.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jackie...

jackie schmidt said:
A good friend showed up at our local range yesterday with one of those new king size AR's chambered in 30O SUM that he had just purchased. We all took a good look, and gave our thoughts on just what would happen when he touched off the first round. This is the first one I have seen.

It was loud, but the recoil, (no muzzle brake), didn't seem half bad.

But,upon examinimg the cases, every one showed a sheared piece of brass where the pressure had extruded the face of the case back into the ejector hole drilled in the bolt face, (just like a Remington will do), and one case had a pierced primer.

He was shooting 180 grn Factory Remington ammo, which appeared to be way too hot.

This seems strange, as this rifle is surely designed to shoot Factory loads.

He said he was just going to send it back and get a refund, he sort of fell out of love with the thing pretty quick.

Is this a common occurance with gas guns chambered in these big super boomer rounds,or is there a bit of miss-engineering here??........jackie
Click to expand...

not sure for sure but have heard and read that the AR 15 style rifle has had problems with bolt wear or breakage and overall action wear in these larger calibers, especially if the loads are warm. --greg
 
Louis Boyd said:
They may have been, but a few minutes later (now) the Midway site says "out of stock, no backorder". Good thing, it would have cost me $900 if they'd had one. My guess is that DPMS is only filling existing orders.
Click to expand...

Wow that was quick. They just came in on the 20th.
It looks like they expect another shipment the end of the month.
If you do get one the clips are very hard to find but you can get a follower to convert the 308 clip, for more information go to the DPMS Forum


James
 
Last week

I saw a Barrett BMG AR type rifle at a range I was visiting. The owner had two clips there with it and what seemed to be plenty of ammo. I wasn't fired in my presence but I sure wanted to see it working. I also wanted desporately to pick it up and inspect it but controled myself. It was also sporting a Barrett range finding scope that I was dying to peek through.

the owner was holding what looked to be a $25. cigar in his mouth not lit so I could see the owner could afford the rifle OK. The BMG autoloader is an impressive rifle, I must say. Perhaps when my ship comes in - - - -. I wondered if, perhaps, it could have been purchased with some of our "Bonus Money"? :confused:
 
Bonus money

Pete Wass said:
I saw a Barrett BMG AR type rifle at a range I was visiting. The owner had two clips there with it and what seemed to be plenty of ammo. I wasn't fired in my presence but I sure wanted to see it working. I also wanted desporately to pick it up and inspect it but controled myself. It was also sporting a Barrett range finding scope that I was dying to peek through.

the owner was holding what looked to be a $25. cigar in his mouth not lit so I could see the owner could afford the rifle OK. The BMG autoloader is an impressive rifle, I must say. Perhaps when my ship comes in - - - -. I wondered if, perhaps, it could have been purchased with some of our "Bonus Money"? :confused:
Click to expand...


Pete,
Don't you mean BONED money?

Lou Baccino
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top