IBS Resiprosity ??
- Thread starter expiper
- Start date
R.G. Robinett
"That'll never work."
Reciprocity . . .
True reciprocity used to exist: At the NBRSA annual meeting, in the fall of 1997, the board unilaterally terminated it.
Until last year, the IBS kept wearing the white hat - two wrongs never equal right . . .
That was THE big reason that my club began hosting IBS registered events - we didn't have to say, "NO" to anyone . . .
I could accept not allowing non-members to hold records, qualify for points, etc., but either turning them away, or, forcing them to choose organizations - I don't like that. Especially when the organizations may well make MORE money (shooter fees) off a non-member, who attends a several events per season, as opposed to a member, who attends none, or few, & receives a magazine - or, used to. BTW, I am, and have been a member of BOTH organizations for, " many moons" . . . and so, despite my angst, I will continue to be. RG
True reciprocity used to exist: At the NBRSA annual meeting, in the fall of 1997, the board unilaterally terminated it.
Until last year, the IBS kept wearing the white hat - two wrongs never equal right . . .
That was THE big reason that my club began hosting IBS registered events - we didn't have to say, "NO" to anyone . . . I could accept not allowing non-members to hold records, qualify for points, etc., but either turning them away, or, forcing them to choose organizations - I don't like that.
Especially when the organizations may well make MORE money (shooter fees) off a non-member, who attends a several events per season, as opposed to a member, who attends none, or few, & receives a magazine - or, used to. BTW, I am, and have been a member of BOTH organizations for, " many moons" . . . and so, despite my angst, I will continue to be. RG
Last edited:
Randy,
I feel you hit on a vital point in this quote: " but either turning them away, or forcing them to choose organizations - I don't like that" It is my opinion that organizations should try and eliminate those reasons upon which a competitor makes decisions whether to participate or not...... don't give anyone a reason not to shoot.
I feel you hit on a vital point in this quote: " but either turning them away, or forcing them to choose organizations - I don't like that" It is my opinion that organizations should try and eliminate those reasons upon which a competitor makes decisions whether to participate or not...... don't give anyone a reason not to shoot.
mwezell
Mike Ezell
Why must there be membership to one or the other? Fees of $2-$4 could be added to match fees and sent in by the match director to support and fund the organizational operations. Clubs could also pay a small fee. No one gets turned away or has to pay $50, plus match fees to shoot a match.
It's probably been brought up and some reason for not doing it was brought forward, but I would think it would work. In fact, it is working for at least one benchrest sanctioning body. Isn't this similar to what ARA does, as well?
It's probably been brought up and some reason for not doing it was brought forward, but I would think it would work. In fact, it is working for at least one benchrest sanctioning body. Isn't this similar to what ARA does, as well?
True reciprocity used to exist: At the NBRSA annual meeting, in the fall of 1997, the board unilaterally terminated it.
Until last year, the IBS kept wearing the white hat - two wrongs never equal right . . .
I could accept not allowing non-members to hold records, qualify for points, etc., but either turning them away, or, forcing them to choose organizations - I don't like that.
Unfortunately, dividing, splitting, starting up new organizations etc is one of the things humans do. It reminds me of churches and such. I was a part of a church organization once upon a time that started up in the 30's as an offshoot of another one. Things went along pretty good for a time with lots of enthusiasm and growth, but by the 60's there were multiple splits, divisions and such. By the late 70's there were enough splits that you had to have a flow chart to keep up with all the layers of splits and divisions. Fortunately, the shooting community isn't anywhere near that bad.
But the thing is, we're never going to all agree on everything and put it together in one organization or discipline. There are too many points we differ on. The leadership of both major organizations do what their supporters want them to do and there isn't much incentive to work for a merger. No one is all right and no one is all wrong. Looks to me like Lou has possibly the best approach. Memberships in both don't cost much and they do give you the opportunity to shoot where and when you choose. The good part is that most of the individual shooters get along pretty well where ever they meet and shoot together. That's something to encourage.
Rick
IBS Resiprosity
If you don't like it TALK TO YOUR DIRECTORS''
There's quite a bit happening in BOTH organizations if you don't like what you see happening TALK to your DIRECTORS.
It goes to a silly feud that happened in 1969 to 1970 some people keep bringing it Up.
for Petes sake half of those guys are DEAD'
If you don't like it TALK TO YOUR DIRECTORS''
There's quite a bit happening in BOTH organizations if you don't like what you see happening TALK to your DIRECTORS.
It goes to a silly feud that happened in 1969 to 1970 some people keep bringing it Up.
for Petes sake half of those guys are DEAD'
Fyi
It just takes a majority of the NBRSA directors to make that simple change. It was wrong then and it's wrong now.
Certainly, some changes would have to follow but those wouldn't be so bad. Could be good if you thought about it for a minute. Bottom line is that two or three folks will get hurt - pretty badly if I'm thinking straight.
It just takes a majority of the NBRSA directors to make that simple change. It was wrong then and it's wrong now.
Certainly, some changes would have to follow but those wouldn't be so bad. Could be good if you thought about it for a minute. Bottom line is that two or three folks will get hurt - pretty badly if I'm thinking straight.
Dick Grosbier
Club Coordinator
I do not want to beat a dead horse, but
As a member of the IBS Executive board I will tell you that we (the E-Board) did not initiate the end of what was left of reciprocity. That action was initiated by one of our members. But I think it is safe to say we would restore Reciprocity in a heartbeat if it were initiated by NBRSA. IBS never wanted it ended.
Dick Grosbier
As a member of the IBS Executive board I will tell you that we (the E-Board) did not initiate the end of what was left of reciprocity. That action was initiated by one of our members. But I think it is safe to say we would restore Reciprocity in a heartbeat if it were initiated by NBRSA. IBS never wanted it ended.
Dick Grosbier
Huh?
I am just a dumb ole country boy who has not shot bench rest long. But: How does a member end an agreement for an organization versus the directors? Wilbur: Your were a director when I begin shooting. I recall going to what we in the S.E. refer to as the "Yankee Nationals" (IBS Nationals) without having to pay an additional fee. As the Southeast Director during the period it supposedly ended, Can you give background into Problem? And what is the differences that makes this a challenge? Thanks. Jim Casey
I am just a dumb ole country boy who has not shot bench rest long. But: How does a member end an agreement for an organization versus the directors? Wilbur: Your were a director when I begin shooting. I recall going to what we in the S.E. refer to as the "Yankee Nationals" (IBS Nationals) without having to pay an additional fee. As the Southeast Director during the period it supposedly ended, Can you give background into Problem? And what is the differences that makes this a challenge? Thanks. Jim Casey
James Messer, Southeast director at the time, went to the meeting with every intention of voting against the item. The directors that wanted the darn thing tricked him into voting for it with some kind of wild story that never actually happened. His vote made the change - by one vote. I don't actually know what happened but that was his story and James is an extremely honest fellow....so I'm guessing that's what happened.
I returned with the item a couple of years in an attempt to get it changed back and I don't think it ever got a second. There was some heated discussion.....but I'm almost certain I didn't get a second. You can read the minutes to see......I could be wrong. Heck fire, I could have been the one that brought it up in the first place for all I know.
I returned with the item a couple of years in an attempt to get it changed back and I don't think it ever got a second. There was some heated discussion.....but I'm almost certain I didn't get a second. You can read the minutes to see......I could be wrong. Heck fire, I could have been the one that brought it up in the first place for all I know.
I looked for myself - and I was wrong...
From the minutes:
Murdica moved that: "ALL COMPETITORS AT EVERY REGISTERED TOURNAMENT
SHALL BE REQUIRED TO BE A MEMBER OF NBRSA. (effective 1/1/98)" (pgs 14-15,
F.l.; pg 32, J.6. (c); pg 36, K.4. (c); Rev. Ed. #33) Calhoun seconded; motion passed. (5
FOR: Murdica, du Plessis, Calhoun, Kelbly, Dickson; 4 AGAINST: Mulhall, Baier, Messer,
Sicina)
There may be other items that I didn't find on this so if you talk much about it you need to read the minutes.
http://www.nbrsa.org/Minutes/minutes.pdf
From the minutes:
Murdica moved that: "ALL COMPETITORS AT EVERY REGISTERED TOURNAMENT
SHALL BE REQUIRED TO BE A MEMBER OF NBRSA. (effective 1/1/98)" (pgs 14-15,
F.l.; pg 32, J.6. (c); pg 36, K.4. (c); Rev. Ed. #33) Calhoun seconded; motion passed. (5
FOR: Murdica, du Plessis, Calhoun, Kelbly, Dickson; 4 AGAINST: Mulhall, Baier, Messer,
Sicina)
There may be other items that I didn't find on this so if you talk much about it you need to read the minutes.
http://www.nbrsa.org/Minutes/minutes.pdf
huh repeat: Mr Wayne Campbell (Current S.E. Director)
Wilbur: The site you gave did not have minutes for 04-09, and after 2010. However, you brought item up vote in board meeting held Oct 2003. You and 3 others for, 4 against, one abstained and President Creach vote against in tie breaker. Mr Campbell as our current southeast director, could you share your views and knowledge on this subject? If not on forum then in private e mail or phone call. Thanks Jim Casey
Wilbur: The site you gave did not have minutes for 04-09, and after 2010. However, you brought item up vote in board meeting held Oct 2003. You and 3 others for, 4 against, one abstained and President Creach vote against in tie breaker. Mr Campbell as our current southeast director, could you share your views and knowledge on this subject? If not on forum then in private e mail or phone call. Thanks Jim Casey
Wilbur Don't know if you or the rest want my 2 cents, but in 1000 yard National and World Open Matches. It was getting so costly for our club members to travel to nationals and or world open that when I was President of the Williamsport club I made a deal with the IBS AND NBRSA that we honor each others membership because if you had to pay membership in everyone else's club you were going to lose shooters. WE ALL HAVE TO DO SOMETHING TO SAVE THE SPORT!
Joe Salt
Joe Salt
SGJennings
New member
The bottom line here is that we're going to have to deal with the minor expense and hassle of it or avoid the issue by shooting in non-santioned matches or yet other formats.
Jeff Stover
Member
For many years, I was all for retaining the IBS policy of honoring NBRSA cards at registered matches (note that I did not use 'reciprocity') until recently. The action that tipped the scales, for me at least, was the 2012 (or was it 2011?) NBRSA meeting where the motion was made to accept IBS cards at NBRSA matches EXCEPT for Nationals. Even that greatly watered down motion failed for lack of a second. I assume the mortal fear was that NBRSA would lose a membership, or maybe, two.
So...with that total lack of action, I pivoted 180 degrees and said f**k it. As a result, IBS withdrew from a policy it had retained for several years in the hopes that 'reciprocity' would reappear. There IS a limit.
I am not getting into a back and forth on this. Outta here....
Oops, one last thing. We still honor Williamsport cards at the IBS 1000 yd. Nationals (if I am not mistaken).
Jeff Stover
IBS President
So...with that total lack of action, I pivoted 180 degrees and said f**k it. As a result, IBS withdrew from a policy it had retained for several years in the hopes that 'reciprocity' would reappear. There IS a limit.
I am not getting into a back and forth on this. Outta here....
Oops, one last thing. We still honor Williamsport cards at the IBS 1000 yd. Nationals (if I am not mistaken).
Jeff Stover
IBS President
Last edited:
Jeff Walker
Member
Yes Jeff, we do still honor the Williamsport Memberships at the 1000yd Nationals.
One thing I would like to add, if my memory serves me correctly without taking the time to go look it up, the ending of the IBS recognizing NBRSA cards was an agenda item that got enough signatures to be brought up at the winter meeting...then voted on and passed by the entire membership. I don't remember the vote results, but I do believe it was not close.
Jeff Walker
IBS Exec. Sec.
One thing I would like to add, if my memory serves me correctly without taking the time to go look it up, the ending of the IBS recognizing NBRSA cards was an agenda item that got enough signatures to be brought up at the winter meeting...then voted on and passed by the entire membership. I don't remember the vote results, but I do believe it was not close.
Jeff Walker
IBS Exec. Sec.