IBS bolts-out rule

Heck, there's deaf shooters too - they're not going to hear the CD...

(FWIW, Jen's deaf - her idea of "hearing protection" is to turn off her hearing aids).

Everything is largely a matter of "common sense." Which isn't too common as of late.

As for the overhead baffles at public ranges - A lot of folks will "double tap" handguns. I saw a guy do it with a lightweight S&W .44 mag. The second round goes -somewhere- in the air. IIRC, someone, somewhere, managed to darwin themselves in that fashion. I know I've had double-taps with AR rifles (in fact, my first experience with a semi-auto centerfire rifle was in the Army, and the recoil, minimal as it was, was enough for me to bump-fire the thing my first time in the hole - I got over that Real Fast).

Also, regarding the baffles. A lot of folks will put handgun targets at 7 yards. Have you ever seen a night shoot, with tracers? They go everywhere. And it's not just the tracers that go sideways - they go in other weird directions too - you just can't see 'em.

I was also at John Ross' quarry for a shooting event, when one of the guys managed to get himself a "gunshot wound ER visit." He was shooting at a hanging steel plate, I think with a .44, and the jacket came back and went into his forearm, and traveled about 1.5-2" under the skin, necessitating surgical removal, and he wouldn't let us do it at the range with a Case XX and a bottle of whiskey. Wear those glasses, fellows... FWIW, another buddy blew up a Para Ordnance (he sez out of battery, I still think double-charge from trying to run his Dillon at max speed), and a piece of something lodged in his shooting glasses - right about at "pupil" position.

So, hey, let's be safe... Okay?
 
FBecigneul said:
Inquiring minds want to know. Are you Stephen Perry under a new name?
Click to expand...
Nah- Steven Perry is a nice person, and a sho nuff shooter. This 540 hogg guy is crude rude and stupid. You don''t have to read much of his filth to see that for yourself.
 
Hal D. said:
That's where the real problem lies. Too many new shooters are brought in and not given the proper supervision and training. i
Click to expand...


Truth be told, there have been numerous unsafe "incidents" that have involved veteran competitors.I would NOT single out new shooters as the primary problem.
No one has a problem chastising a neophyte shooter.
No one wants to chastise a veteran competitor.
 
I think the word we are looking for is "complacency."

Remember how everyone sorta puckers up and makes darn sure that they've got all their rounds downrange after the first "ten seconds... five seconds... cease-BANG-fire" incident at major matches? It's hell to be the guy who DQs during the first relay of a four day match...

We've gotta be on our toes, and we've gotta remind each other to be on our toes.

Without stepping on toes. If I'm doing something stupid, I would sincerely like someone to -politely- tell me about it. And I will -politely- tell other folks the same, should it be necessary.

After all, we are gentlemen, playing a gentleman's sport.

Except for the ladies, of course... But since they're ladies, they never would dream of doing anything stupid.
 
I have held back making comments, but I think posting a few facts are in order:

1. The incident at Thurmont was caused by a "newer" shooter, but one that had been to 2 or 3 registered matches. Further, before that he attended numerous unregistered ones, but they were at South Creek Northern Tier which is run "by the rules" by Jack Deming. From a safety standpoint those matches are as strict as a registered match. The shooter involved accepted responsibility and in no way blamed his mentors for their failing to explain safety procedures. He screwed up, plain and simple.

Walking away from the line with a loaded round in the chamber was addressed by the IBS Executive Board in '07 with the "show your bolts" exercise at the end of each match. This simple action eliminates the potentially tragic incident described above. Another result of this rule is that all competitors stay seated until the end which removes possible distractions caused by shooters finishing and leaving the bench.

I have discussed the "show your bolts" practice with shooters are larger non-IBS matches. There may be a few detractors here and there (mostly those that want to get up and leave), but everyone that I talked to said it was a good idea. I agree, and would like to see the practice extend to the "other" organization.

2. In my mind, the need has been established to check bullet seating, et. al. with a stripped bolt and dummy round in the loading area. This is a totally different issue from the one above. We are actively discussing ways to deal with allowing stripped bolts/dummy rounds. I will report back on this in the very near future.

A couple of closing thoughts...if you look at the mercifully short litany of tragic incidents in our sport there are a few parallels. Aside from the discharge described earlier, the disasters fall into two categories: bore blockage and stuck loaded round. The only fatalities that I know of were related to both circumstances. A related problem is having no eye protection when pieces fly out of an action. I am not ready to hi-jack this thread, but we need to see where the real-world actual problems reside and find ways to address them with intelligence and common-sense.

Jeff Stover
IBS President
 
Last edited:
Jeff Stover said:
2. In my mind, the need has been established to check bullet seating, et. al. with a stripped bolt and dummy round in the loading area. This is a totally different issue from the one above. We are actively discussing ways to deal with allowing stripped bolts/dummy rounds. I will report back on this in the very near future.


Jeff Stover
IBS President
Click to expand...

Jeff, as I noted in post #3, the stripped bolt in action is the reason I brought this whole thing up. The "show bolts" at the firing line, while making grown men get a kind-of silly feeling, may not be a bad idea. But the stripped bolt part needs to be separated out and revisited.

Having a safe place and a referee when a bolt needs to be inserted sounds secure, almost. Last year at Kelblys IBS Nats, the safe place was in the shop at Carl and Tom's workroom. The safe condition was with the gun pointing toward the firing line. The "official referees" while very competent gunsmiths, did not meet the usual expectations of being referees, IMO, and I consider Carl and Tom good personal friends.
 
Thank You Jeff

quoting Jeff " we need to see where the real-world actual problems reside and find ways to address them with intelligence and common-sense."

Sounds logical to me.

Later
Dave
 
The latest word

Jeff Stover posted a link in another thread that leads you to the IBS Home Page showing recent rulings of the Executive Committee. In case you missed that thread.

Bolts Out Rule:

In order to safely allow competitors to check seating depth, et. al. in the loading area, the E-Board voted to allow the allow insertion of bolts in the loading areas ONLY if the shooter:

Strips the bolt of the fire control system
Uses a dummy round without primer or powder
Inserts a NRA "chamber flag" or other IBS-approved indicator inside the bare bolt
Displays all of these items to those around him
Violation will result in an immediate DQ from the tournament


The change in the bolts outs rule will not take effect until we establish the exact type of bare bolt indicator that will be readily available to competitors. A likely date of inception is June 1, 2009. Until that time, the existing "bolts out rule" applies.

IMO, this is a reasonable response to a reasonable request.

Thanks Mr. IBS President.

A Bushmills toast to you sir.
 
Last edited:
Regarding the Cease-bang Fire thing

I can not understand, for the life of me, how anyone who has their head on somewhat straight could ever be guilty of this when , at least in IBS Score anyway, there is a countdown that clearly tells everyone how much time is left. It seems akin to me to folks being disturbed by sounds around them when they are shooting. If a competitor is paying attention to shooting in a match they will be FOCUSED on the proceedure and on their flags and target. I don't think I am at all unique in being able to FOCUS on what I am at the bench to do. Perhaps those who can't focus should try to work on FOCUSING.;)
 
Pete Wass said:
I can not understand, for the life of me, how anyone who has their head on somewhat straight could ever be guilty of this when , at least in IBS Score anyway, there is a countdown that clearly tells everyone how much time is left. It seems akin to me to folks being disturbed by sounds around them when they are shooting. If a competitor is paying attention to shooting in a match they will be FOCUSED on the proceedure and on their flags and target. I don't think I am at all unique in being able to FOCUS on what I am at the bench to do. Perhaps those who can't focus should try to work on FOCUSING.;)
Click to expand...

I agree 100% Pete, but I'll bet I witnessed it a half dozen times last year alone.
 
An interesting survey...somewhat related

A survey of 43 nuclear plant operators was taken concerning a simple and repetitious task that affected core reactivity. The questions were:

1) Do you need a procedure to perform this task?

2) Do your coworkers need a procedure to perform this task?

100% answered the first question "No".

100% answered the second question "Yes"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top