IBS Annual Meeting Summary

J

Jeff Stover

Member
The IBS’ Annual Meeting was held on January 15, 2010 in New Cumberland (Harrisburg), Pennsylvania. Below is super short version of what happened. My full report and PowerPoint is on the IBS web site:

http://internationalbenchrest.com/news/index.php


• The organization’s finances are solid.
• The number of competitors in all four disciplines (600, 1000, Score and Group) remained relatively stable.
• Representatives from the each of the discipline committees will sit as ex officio members of the IBS Executive Board.
• Gary Long and others promulgated the format for a Score Shooting Hall of Fame. The IBS EBoard has been working with Gary for some months to help get this new HOF started. Points for both IBS Score and NBRSA Hunter competition count toward membership. Once the inaugural class is inducted the members will run it themselves like the U. S. Benchrest Hall of Fame does. (full details will be on IBS web site).
• New records were shot in all the disciplines.
• Both temporary 2010 rule changes were soundly passed. Wind flags - Flags are essentially restricted to lane in front of shooters. After an aggregate commences flags cannot be moved except by range personnel and never for the shooters' convenience or advantage. Records - If multiple competitors break a record on a given day, regardless of the match they attended or the relay on which they shot, each one is given full credit for breaking the record; the best score shot on that day is recognized record going forward. Rule is not retroactive.
• Kim and Gary Amatrudo received the President’s Award for their tireless work to support the group discipline.
• The trial AR class will continue. The EBoard is looking at some marketing opportunities.
• Over 550 benchrest shooters took the time to fill it out. Nearly 500 non-benchrest shooters responded.
• The results of the surveys can be found at the following web link (use IBS as the password):
Benchrest shooters survey:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/sr.aspx?sm=NPttfyWNFKohsZ15rJ2VyxSgq3VaWhdPEsyLbM320nY_3d

Non-benchrest shooters survey:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/sr.aspx?sm=epQYw4v81oHGmT20SLZz_2fWNTksVcKtlja8MyWEaO2eE_3d

Take away points from the surveys are:
• There is strong interest in growing benchrest
• There is a group of shooters that would like to learn more about benchrest competition (from the non-BR shooters survey)
• Cost is an issue for some
• The economy has adversely affected shooter participation
• Shooters would like to have more matches at more ranges (note – we need more shooters to do this)
• The idea of “caliber neutral” (not giving an advantage to larger diameter bullet holes) score in the Score discipline is a 50/50 proposition for current score shooters. There is a large body of shooters (not currently in that discipline) that would like to shoot Score if it were “caliber neutral”.
• The 1000 yard shooters would like to shoot more aggregates
• The DQ rule in long range needs to be looked at
• 65% of respondents to survey would like to see one centerfire benchrest organization (note - there are significant hurdles to do this)

Proposed 2011 Rule Changes

Stationary Backers in the Score Discipline
Rejected by a wide margin were two proposals to constrain stationary backers to Score Nationals and State Championships. These backers are essential in determining whether a crossfire occurred and from which bench.

Muzzle Brakes
The long range shooters voted to allow muzzle brakes the Heavy Gun class. This will allow the Light Guns (which usually have muzzle brakes) to compete in both classes. This change was supported by the Long Rang Committee and endorsed by the EBoard.

The 600 yard competition rule amendments were defeated soundly.

Jeff Stover
IBS President
 
Now that there is an agreement that we NEED Backers, how about making certain that all points awarded for Grand Aggs are only given when clubs actually use Backers?
 
Jeff:

First of all, thanks so much to you and all the people that serve on the various IBS boards and committees for your hard work and dedication. Our sport owes all of you a debt of thanks..it does not go unappreciated!

The Score Shooter HOF is something that's long overdue...the inclusion of both IBS and NBRSA accomplishments is, to me, the cornerstone of a true Score Shooting H.O.F.

In looking over the text of the meeting, I'm going to quote the Score Shooting H.O.F. section:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Long gave a report on the proposed Score Shooting Hall of Fame. He worked with Randy Perkowski, Bill Gebhardt, and Dr. Bill Sargent to arrive a point system for membership. The IBS EBoard was initially instrumental in encouraging Gary’s work, but it is not an IBS initiative per se. Points for both IBS Score and NBRSA Hunter competition count toward membership. Once the inaugural class is inducted the members
will run it themselves like the U. S. Benchrest Hall of Fame does. IBS will give space on its web site for the Score Shooting Hall of Fame.

It will take 10 points to enter. Only points earned at a Nationals (both 100/200 and 200/300) will count. One point will be earned for wins in a range aggregate, grand aggregate and a 2-gun (when the 2-gun is officially recognized).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does that mean the Two Gun Score will soon be a recognized National Championship?


Thanks again! -Al
 
Pete Wass said:
Now that there is an agreement that we NEED Backers, how about making certain that all points awarded for Grand Aggs are only given when clubs actually use Backers?
Click to expand...

Does that mean backers must be used when only one distance is contested?
 
Jackie, the rule was NOT changed from what we had. As before, if a grand aggregate is contested then stationary backers are required.

Al, I don't have anything to report relative to a Score 2-Gun.

jks
 
Pete Wass said:
Now that there is an agreement that we NEED Backers, how about making certain that all points awarded for Grand Aggs are only given when clubs actually use Backers?
Click to expand...

It would be a mistake to assume that there is agreement for the need for backers. I suspect that if the people shooting were also the people having to deal with backers, the situation would change. It's pretty simple to just demand that someone else do the work. In shooting score for eight years at several different ranges, I've seen a crossfire occur twice. On both occasions the errant party readily admitted to it.

Also, could someone explain why it is that backers are necessary for grand aggs, but not needed for single yargdages. There is probably a good reason, but I've not seen an explanation of such.

Rick Fox
 
Backers are needed! Right now they are only required at events that are to be scored as a Grand Aggregate. Single Yardage events do not require a backer, but backers should be used. Backers are one part in a system of checks and balances.

If you crossfire and don't know it... The backer shows it.
If you crossfire and know it and claim it... The backer confirms it.
If you crossfire and know it but don't claim it... The backer proves it.
If your target is crossfired upon and you know it... The backer confirms it.
If your target is crossfired upon and you don't know it... The backer shows it.
If your target is crossfired upon and you know it and nobody owns up to it... The backer saves your ass.
 
Al Nyhus said:
Does that mean the Two Gun Score will soon be a recognized National Championship?
Click to expand...
No Al
It means if the IBS Score 2 Gun should ever become a National Championship recognized event it will count for Score HOF points. BTW I have posted the basic Score HOF proposal as received from the committee on the IBS webpage under the Results/Shooter Rankings tab. BTW the IBS webpage is merely hosting information about the Score HOF. At this point it has been cut loose and is on it's own as an independent entity and not governed by IBS.

http://internationalbenchrest.com/results/shooter_rankings/HOF.html

Dick

P.S. It is really impossible to say what the Score HOF Committee might decide 5 or 10 years down the road but at this point the only 2 gun combination the committee will recognize is VFS / 6X not LV/HV and of course only if it is a recognized National Championship.
 
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pbike said:
Backers are needed! Right now they are only required at events that are to be scored as a Grand Aggregate. Single Yardage events do not require a backer, but backers should be used. Backers are one part in a system of checks and balances.

If you crossfire and don't know it... The backer shows it.
If you crossfire and know it and claim it... The backer confirms it.
If you crossfire and know it but don't claim it... The backer proves it.
If your target is crossfired upon and you know it... The backer confirms it.
If your target is crossfired upon and you don't know it... The backer shows it.
If your target is crossfired upon and you know it and nobody owns up to it... The backer saves your ass.
Click to expand...


Wow Paul, now that was incredibly helpful.

But I would say that you would be closer to correct if you said that backers are "wanted" rather than needed.

Just for giggles, I'll set myself up to look foolish. How many of you who run matches had an incident last year that required a backer to be examined to prove who made the errant shot? Hell, I'll even go first. I shot 16 registered matches at 5 ranges last year. Not once was a crossfire called, let alone a "need" for a backer examination. I've run the matches at Gallatin for three years and shot nearly every match at Buck Creek since they started there seven or eight years ago (maybe more). In all those matches there has never been a "need" to examine a backer. In fact, I can only recall two, maybe three crossfires and one was mine. The guilty party readily fessed up and we moved on.

At a time when we are trying to draw more people to matches why do we insist on handicapping the people who are working to put them on with unnecessary additions and expense like backers? And if they are in fact "needed", why aren't they required for every event? Is it somehow easier to determine where a shot came from if you are only contesting one yardage and not a grand agg? If there is a good reason for this approach, I'd sincerely appreciate someone explaining it to me. Otherwise, I'll have to assume it's just a bunch of cranky old farts who never set foot past a bench to help on a range, but are terrified that someone will try and screw them out of a record agg by intentionally crossfiring on their target. I don't know about the rest of you, but the folks I shoot with aren't that kind of people and if you are, I hope you don't come to visit us.

And while we're at it, I have a question for all the ranges who only shoot one yardage on a given match day. Do you all use backers for these events? If not, why not?

The rule stands for another year, so it is what it is, but this "needs" to be talked about if only to educate those of us who are opposed to it. I'm willing to be wrong, but I quit excepting rules just because they exist a long time ago. When someone gives me a rule to abide by, I expect a reasonable explanation.

Rant mode on hold temporarily....

Rick
 
I agree with Rick also. In the 7 years we have shot IBS score matches, we have had two people that thought they were crossfired on. After looking at their targets and thinking about the shot a little more, both shooters said it was their own shot. If backers are SO important, why is it that they are not required when shooting only one yardage? Looks to me like we need a rule that would require backers at ALL matches.
 
Going without backers is fine among a group of friends who all know and trust each other. During my years of shooting and been a referee I have seen perhaps a half dozen crossfires where nobody was willing to own them. Actually, last summer at a State Championship event there was a crossfire reported. Nobody would own it. The match director had acquired an aluminum rod the size of a 30 Cal bullet and5 or 6" long. Witht he rod inserted through both bullet holes it was clear that the shot came from 3 or 4 benches away.

I have also seen a couple of situations where there is an extra hole in someone's #5 bull and they swear they didn't do it. Once the target is lain on the backer is was easy to see that the shot came from the shooter in question. It's easy to do, especially if a person shoot a a bunch of sitghters. Agreed, crossfires don't happen all the time but when they do, it may mean the difference between a shooter winning or loosing a match.

What I would like to see is when a crossfire occurs the match is stopped and the crossfire resolved right then, right now, then continue with the match. I know, I know, everyone is gonna be right in the middle of the best condition that has occured that month but how about the shooter who has traveled 1000 miles to participate? Because crossfires don't happen that often, resolving them the way I have suggested shouldn't be a problem; except for the person who is shooting in the best conditione of their entire lifetime.

It is widely rumored that some of the venues that shoot two yardages on either one day or weekend and claim grand Agg points don't always use backers. That is what my comment previously was about. No points for grand aggs unless backers are used, Period
 
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Pete Wass said:
Going without backers is fine among a group of friends who all know and trust each other. During my years of shooting and been a referee I have seen perhaps a half dozen crossfires where nobody was willing to own them. Actually, last summer at a State Championship event there was a crossfire reported. Nobody would own it. The match director had acquired an aluminum rod the size of a 30 Cal bullet and5 or 6" long. Witht he rod inserted through both bullet holes it was clear that the shot came from 3 or 4 benches away.

I have also seen a couple of situations where there is an extra hole in someone's #5 bull and they swear they didn't do it. Once the target is lain on the backer is was easy to see that the shot came from the shooter in question. It's easy to do, especially if a person shoot a a bunch of sitghters. Agreed, crossfires don't happen all the time but when they do, it may mean the difference between a shooter winning or loosing a match.

What I would like to see is when a crossfire occurs the match is stopped and the crossfire resolved right then, right now, then continue with the match. I know, I know, everyone is gonna be right in the middle of the best condition that has occured that month but how about the shooter who has traveled 1000 miles to participate? Because crossfires don't happen that often, resolving them the way I have suggested shouldn't be a problem; except for the person who is shooting in the best conditione of their entire lifetime.

It is widely rumored that some of the venues that shoot two yardages on either one day or weekend and claim grand Agg points don't always use backers. That is what my comment previously was about. No points for grand aggs unless backers are used, Period
Click to expand...

Pete, the real quetion is why are they "needed", only for grand aggs, and not single yardage events. Has there ever been a case where they were needed in a single yardage event and they didn't have them? If not, why/what is the difference? If there has been a case when they were needed, but not required or used, in a single yardage match, what was the resolution?--Mike
 
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Having been a ref. many times, my take on this is pretty basic:

Stationary backers are to protect the shooter whose target has been crossfired on.

It's not primarily about finding out who crossfired...although you can quickly determine that, in most cases. As long as a shooter isn't unfairly penalized for extra holes in his/her target..that's the important thing.

And since there's a potential for setting a new record at single yardage events, it's pretty hard to make a case for backers being used only at tournaments where multi yardage Grand Aggs. are contested.

At least with a straight face....:rolleyes:

Good shootin'. -Al
 
The best reason that I could think of for backers being used at grand agg events only is thats the matches that people will claim for SSOY points but since this rule predates the best 12 match rule for SSOY that certainly wasn't the intent. The intent was (I think) to allow ranges to hold single yardage events( the majority of matches) without the extra exspense and work of fooling with backers and that encourages more ranges to hold matches and that is a worthy goal, because without ranges holding matches we are just a bunch of people with high price toys and no where to play. If reguiring ranges to use backers at all yardages caused ranges to quit holding matches then I'm against making the change. Not trying to start a fight with anyone just my personal take on it. Have a great day! :)
 
Hi Steve. :)

I'm in complete agreement with you about the extra work involved. Out here in fly-over country, all of our tournaments are 100-200 Grand Aggs on both Saturday and Sunday (Hunter/VH on Sat and VfS on Sunday) so the range people work their tails off moving both the target frames and the backers for every yardage change. Plus, since we finish at 200 on Saturday, they have to be moved back to 100 for Sundays VfS 100 yd. event. Competitors lend a hand whenever possible to help, but the bulk of the heavy lifting falls on the shoulders of the target crew and range officers.

I'm not advocating the use of backers for all events...just saying that fair for one should be fair for all. If a shooter can claim SSOY points for single yardage tournaments, why should those events not require backers...when a multi yardage Grand Agg event does?

Good shootin' and stay warm. :) -Al
 
All this extra work that is neccessary to set up and take down backers can be easily fixed. At least through my eyes. There are always a few guys that come to the match and don't lend a hand at all. They are there with the mindset of an elitist, they paid for the match, everything should be handed to them on a silver platter. Fine, if they don't want to help, they don't get a backer to protect their targets from crossfires. It won't be long before they see the need for backers and begin to help, or at least move their butts out of the way of those that are working.

Unfortunately, The same guys that never help are the same guys that you never see posting here, well that blows that idea.

Anyway everything that is required by a club to run a match can be eased if all those attending helped the local club in anyway possible.

Paul
 
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Paul. If that is what it takes to keep ranges holding registered matches, we might as well start selling out right now. I don't expect someone that has driven 50-150 miles just to get to the range to compete to be expected to help with target frames and backers all day long. Several of the guys that shoot at Buck Creek are great about helping and I really appreciate it, but I don't expect them to take time away from their cleaning/loading or just relaxing between matches to help with that work. As it stands right now, the ruling on when backers must be used just plain sucks.
 
Paul,
Tell the people that shoot the match that the price will increase because you have to pay someone to work the backers. Get some one to work the backers and pay them. It is hard to get someone to help run a match. We charge $5.00 for a club score match and give back half to winners.
john
Mims, Fl.
 
Jackie and Al, I agree that the present rule makes no sense but I certainly don't want to see ranges saddled with more work to hold a match. It is a lot of work to hold a match and many ranges are not blessed with help. Stay warm and shoot well. Steve
 
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