Hunter class benchrest rifle

[virg]

I gonna do it...

Naturally I would like to have some more brass available. Let's assume I buy .300 Savage brass and I need to set the shoulder back. What would I use for a body resizing die?

What exactly is the difference, dimension wise, between the 6.5x47 and the 30-47 other than the neck diameter? Can I just buy 6.5x47 Lapua brass, expand the neck, load a bullet or will it not chamber in my 30-47?

I'd appreciate any help or advice, thank you muchly.

I have a 30HBR (30-47 with 30 degree shoulder). I normally use 300 Sav Rem brass to form cases. I use a Redding full length "S" type bushing die custom made by Redding from three of my fired cases. Works great.

I have just obtained 100 Lapua 6.5-47 brass and opened a few with an expander mandrel to 30 caliber. They chamber fine in my rifle. After neck trimming for my .332 neck size, I'll fire form them and see how they perform against my present 300 Sav based brass. My normal load is 42.8gr of Vit 135 behind a 136 (10 ogive) BIB bullet giving a 3020 fps velocity. We'll see...virg.

 

[Bnhpr]

OK,

Lock, stock and barrel are a done deal, and i'm going to chamber it. .308W (The first rifle anyway, or I may rechamber this one if I need to)

My question is? Do I need to re-work this reamer? It's a .308 match PTG from Midway.

How long should I specify the freebore for these short bullets, 17 twist barrel?

Ben

 

[bushpilotmexico]

I have a 30HBR (30-47 with 30 degree shoulder). I normally use 300 Sav Rem brass to form cases. I use a Redding full length "S" type bushing die custom made by Redding from three of my fired cases. Works great.

I have just obtained 100 Lapua 6.5-47 brass and opened a few with an expander mandrel to 30 caliber. They chamber fine in my rifle. After neck trimming for my .332 neck size, I'll fire form them and see how they perform against my present 300 Sav based brass. My normal load is 42.8gr of Vit 135 behind a 136 (10 ogive) BIB bullet giving a 3020 fps velocity. We'll see...virg.

Virg,

Did you order your custom die directly from Redding? You can PM me the info if you wish, I'm also curious about what such a die would cost.

It's interesting that the 6.5x47 will chamber in your 30-47.....the web on the cases that came with the rifle formed from the .300 Savage cases measures 11.83 mm and the Lapua schematic that I downloaded says that the Lapua case measures 11.95 mm or slightly larger. I think this is what shooters are finding, that if you have a true 30-47 chamber then the Lapua is tight. I think that's why they are rechambering to open up the chamber to the 6.5x47 Lapua specifications?

The 6.5x47 route would be the ideal way to go but I wish I could only buy 2 or 3 cases to try the expanding and then neck turning to see if they will chamber before I buy a box of 100.

Cliff

 

[bushpilotmexico]

I have a 30HBR (30-47 with 30 degree shoulder). I normally use 300 Sav Rem brass to form cases. I use a Redding full length "S" type bushing die custom made by Redding from three of my fired cases. Works great.

I have just obtained 100 Lapua 6.5-47 brass and opened a few with an expander mandrel to 30 caliber. They chamber fine in my rifle. After neck trimming for my .332 neck size, I'll fire form them and see how they perform against my present 300 Sav based brass. My normal load is 42.8gr of Vit 135 behind a 136 (10 ogive) BIB bullet giving a 3020 fps velocity. We'll see...virg.

I'm going to try the custom die first....I'm ordering one thru Russ Haydon's. I'll have to talk to Redding once they receive my cases. The 30-47 that I bought also has a .332 neck so the reformed .300 Savage cases will need neck trimming before they will chamber in my rifle. I just want to make sure that Redding is in the loop, so to speak, and when they make my custom die they give me a virgin unfired .300 Savage neck diameter. If they duplicate the trimmed diameter on the fired cases I am sending them I think I would be out of luck trying to form the .300 Savage case.

Redding is probably smart enough to know this but I would want to clarify this point. Also Redding indicated to Russ Haydon that the engineering on the case may have already been done and in their system as they have a long list of 30-47 dies that they have produced.

 

[virg]

Here's your info...

Virg,

Did you order your custom die directly from Redding? You can PM me the info if you wish, I'm also curious about what such a die would cost.

It's interesting that the 6.5x47 will chamber in your 30-47.....the web on the cases that came with the rifle formed from the .300 Savage cases measures 11.83 mm and the Lapua schematic that I downloaded says that the Lapua case measures 11.95 mm or slightly larger. I think this is what shooters are finding, that if you have a true 30-47 chamber then the Lapua is tight. I think that's why they are rechambering to open up the chamber to the 6.5x47 Lapua specifications?

The 6.5x47 route would be the ideal way to go but I wish I could only buy 2 or 3 cases to try the expanding and then neck turning to see if they will chamber before I buy a box of 100.

Cliff

Yes, I ordered the dies directly from Redding. The cost was $155 since it was not an off the self item. If they had made one before, it would have been $85.

The reamer used for my 30HBR was one Speedy used to make the rifle in late 1997. Frank Wilson bought the reamer and still does my barrel work with this same reamer. I normally run plain Rem 300 Savage brass through the die with a .324 bushing, and turn the necks to 9.5 thousands. I don't even have to trim the necks back. Fired 300 Sav cases measure .465 at the web and the new Lapua 6.5-47 brass measures .466. Just a tiny bit tight, but no real problem with chambering.

We'll see how this all pans out when I fire form them. Don't really care about the results because I'm really satisfied with the 300 Sav cases and have plenty. This is just an experiment for curiosity sake.

Know what you mean by wishing for just a few cases to play with. Tell you what, let me know your address and I'll sent you five...gratis.

 

[Pete Wass]

I shot some of them - - - -

The Lapuas, that is, with good results but I 'll be danged if I can see any accuracy difference between them and any of my other brass. Perhaps it's because I am such a mediocre shooter but I don't find any difference.

I also have made up some cases from the Rem.BR cases and while the primer pockets are looser right off the bat, they seem to work KO also.

I have found that the Winchester 300 Savage cases tend to be of better quality than the Remingtons. The Rems are softer and easier to stretch primer pockets. The large primer pockets tend to loosen up faster than the small, especially the new Lauua. They all stayed tight all season behind a stiff load of 130 and RE 7. While they are a bit larger in the butt, once they were crunched down in my full length Jones die, they didn't cause any probllems with being tight. I do full length resize every time I load them .

 

[bushpilotmexico]

Yes, I ordered the dies directly from Redding. The cost was $155 since it was not an off the self item. If they had made one before, it would have been $85.

The reamer used for my 30HBR was one Speedy used to make the rifle in late 1997. Frank Wilson bought the reamer and still does my barrel work with this same reamer. I normally run plain Rem 300 Savage brass through the die with a .224 bushing, and turn the necks to 9.5 thousands. I don't even have to trim the necks back. Fired 300 Sav cases measure .465 at the web and the new Lapua 6.5-47 brass measures .466. Just a tiny bit tight, but no real problem with chambering.

We'll see how this all pans out when I fire form them. Don't really care about the results because I'm really satisfied with the 300 Sav cases and have plenty. This is just an experiment for curiosity sake.

Know what you mean by wishing for just a few cases to play with. Tell you what, let me know your address and I'll sent you five...gratis.

Virg,

I'll be talking to Patrick Ryan at Redding this Monday. If I understand correctly they made you a bushing full length sizing die? You mention you run stock .300 Savage cases thru the die with a .224 neck bushing....did you mean .324?

This is where I get a little foggy, the gun that I purchased has a .332 neck. It came with 100 rounds of formed and fired .300 Savage brass that had been neck turned in order to chamber. The fired brass measure .330 across the neck with a .012 wall thickness. A loaded round measures .3305.

The rifle came with Wilson dies and the neck sizing bushing is .325. Correct me if I am wrong but I need to order a bushing full length resizing die? As I am going to be forcing virgin .300 Savage brass into the die to reform the cases would I not need a bushing equivalent to the outside diameter of the .300 Savage case what ever that might be? You mention you turn the necks to 9.5 thousands, would you mind explaining this measurement.

I apologize for seeming a little slow on the up take but I blame it on my advancing years. I appreciate the offer of the brass and I may take you up on it if I can't scrounge up a few cases locally.

 

[virg]

More info...

Virg,

I'll be talking to Patrick Ryan at Redding this Monday. If I understand correctly they made you a bushing full length sizing die? You mention you run stock .300 Savage cases thru the die with a .224 neck bushing....did you mean .324?

This is where I get a little foggy, the gun that I purchased has a .332 neck. It came with 100 rounds of formed and fired .300 Savage brass that had been neck turned in order to chamber. The fired brass measure .330 across the neck with a .012 wall thickness. A loaded round measures .3305.

The rifle came with Wilson dies and the neck sizing bushing is .325. Correct me if I am wrong but I need to order a bushing full length resizing die? As I am going to be forcing virgin .300 Savage brass into the die to reform the cases would I not need a bushing equivalent to the outside diameter of the .300 Savage case what ever that might be? You mention you turn the necks to 9.5 thousands, would you mind explaining this measurement.

I apologize for seeming a little slow on the up take but I blame it on my advancing years. I appreciate the offer of the brass and I may take you up on it if I can't scrounge up a few cases locally.

Yes; I did mean .324 (damn keyboard). And yes my die is a full length "S" type bushing die. I just roll the new brass over a pad soaked with RCBS "Case Lube-2" and run them up through the die. After that I trim to length, run them through a Sinclair expander mandrel to make them run over the neck turner mandrel easier, and then turn the necks. After champhering the necks inside and out, there're ready to fire form. Your present .325 bushing will probably work as well. Here are some of my brasses measurements:

Fired Rem brass: .331 (this is probably after springback from the .332 neck)

Loaded Rem Brass: .3275 This is a little sloppy for a .332 neck, but I'm still using some brass that I formed in 1998, so It must not be exercising it too bad.

New Sav 300 Rem brass neck rim thickness: .012 (this is how thick the neck is measured at the mouth of the case before turning).

New Rem brass after neck turning with a .324 bushing, .009. I probably could get away with turning to .010, but I like .009 and never experience any hard chambering with it.

Good luck and if you have further questions; just ask...virg

 

[bushpilotmexico]

Yes; I did mean .324 (damn keyboard). And yes my die is a full length "S" type bushing die. I just roll the new brass over a pad soaked with RCBS "Case Lube-2" and run them up through the die. After that I trim to length, run them through a Sinclair expander mandrel to make them run over the neck turner mandrel easier, and then turn the necks. After champhering the necks inside and out, there're ready to fire form. Your present .325 bushing will probably work as well. Here are some of my brasses measurements:

Fired Rem brass: .331 (this is probably after springback from the .332 neck)

Loaded Rem Brass: .3275 This is a little sloppy for a .332 neck, but I'm still using some brass that I formed in 1998, so It must not be exercising it too bad.

New Sav 300 Rem brass neck rim thickness: .012 (this is how thick the neck is measured at the mouth of the case before turning).

New Rem brass after neck turning with a .324 bushing, .009. I probably could get away with turning to .010, but I like .009 and never experience any hard chambering with it.

Good luck and if you have further questions; just ask...virg

I appreciate all your input and will talk with Redding this Monday. I imagine if you found your 6.5x47 Lapua brass a little tight a pass in your resizing die would probably solve the problem?

Cliff

 

[alinwa]

bushpilotmexico,


I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'd like to comment on your statement (question) that "I imagine if you found your 6.5x47 Lapua brass a little tight a pass in your resizing die would probably solve the problem?" I think that you're referring to the brass being overly fat or large at the base.

IME this is NOT TRUE.........I have lots of custom dies, Borden, Harrell, Jones, Redding mod'd dies, one-offs, dies made from my reamers with no brand-names........and I can state without fear of reprimand that you will NOT squeeze down the actual web area at the base of the case with a conventional resizing die.

The problem occurs in the thick brass at the base........when your brass is fat at the butt from the get-go, or when you've expanded it with hot loads, it's OVER as far as resizing. Have your chamber cut large enough for clearance on YOUR brand and type of case.


al

 

[bushpilotmexico]

bushpilotmexico,


I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'd like to comment on your statement (question) that "I imagine if you found your 6.5x47 Lapua brass a little tight a pass in your resizing die would probably solve the problem?" I think that you're referring to the brass being overly fat or large at the base.

IME this is NOT TRUE.........I have lots of custom dies, Borden, Harrell, Jones, Redding mod'd dies, one-offs, dies made from my reamers with no brand-names........and I can state without fear of reprimand that you will NOT squeeze down the actual web area at the base of the case with a conventional resizing die.

The problem occurs in the thick brass at the base........when your brass is fat at the butt from the get-go, or when you've expanded it with hot loads, it's OVER as far as resizing. Have your chamber cut large enough for clearance on YOUR brand and type of case.


al

I appreciate your input.

 

[2Dogs]

Thanks again al, I did see the varmint huinter class rules, and thought about going that way. And your assumption is correct, I like the limitations of the Hunter class.

I've been shooting all my life, but when I started speaking with and meeting competetive shooters, someone told me that benchrest is the only sport where someone will help you try to compete against them. they'll loan you a rifle to shoot in a match their in! And tell you how to win. It's a good attitude, for the betterment of the sport. Competition drives perfection. And teaching a subject is the best way to master it.

And that seems to be the case, it would be easy for you guys to ignore my posts and let me go chamber up a 308, throated and twisted for 168 grain bullets, and I would be stuck with it.

So, I'd be a fool not to listen. It seems that there is a consensus around "biting the bullet" and getting a reamer for 30x47 Lapua, throated for the 1" bullets and a 17 twist barrel. I have to go over my notes, feel free to correct me.

I can have a die made with the reamer, or a reamer made for the die?

Anyway, I can read back through the posts and figure it out. (maybe)

Ben

Ben...Go to 6mmbr.com and see the info pages on the 30br. You may be interested in that caliber.

 

[Bnhpr]

I'd have a reamer already if the case held more than 45 grains of water.