Pete,
I was thinking, could I make an R8 collet to fit the 30-30 brass, and put a stationary tool on my milling machine table, and cut these rims quite fast?
How would you do the headspacing? Maybe I should ask the boys on the gunsmith forum.
Ben
Hunter class benchrest rifle
- Thread starter Bnhpr
- Start date
Pete,
I was thinking, could I make an R8 collet to fit the 30-30 brass, and put a stationary tool on my milling machine table, and cut these rims quite fast?
How would you do the headspacing? Maybe I should ask the boys on the gunsmith forum.
Ben
HBR cases, etc.
Ben, there are dozens of ways to approach a good case for a Hunter Benchrest rig. Lots of stuff works, from the 30-30 based Aardvarks all the way up to the full length 308's. The importance of reamer/chamber/die/brass fit is critical to a good working rig, regardless of what case you ultimately decide to use...at least in my opinion. But I'm just one guy and there may be others that use a different approach.
Here's three different cases that Stan and I have worked with in our search for the 'ultimate' HBR case. That is..if such a creature exists.
Left- 30 BeWare:This is a full length 6.5X284 Lapua necked to .30. Randy Robinett and I were doing parallel development work with HBR cases that would push the 118-125's to significantly higher muzzle velocities that what is commonly used. Randy's rig was a full length 300WSM @ 3,600-3,700 and my BeWare was 3,400-3,500 with 54.0-55.0 of Re15. In a 10 lb. Hunter rig, it was...errrr...interesting to shoot all day.
Randy did an 'end run' and used a muzzle brake on his 300 Whizzum HBR rig..brakes being legal at that time.
Middle- 30 WareWolf: This is a 'ham and egg' HBR case that does it all and does it right. The Kiff reamer was spec'd after a good bit of looking at available dies and dimensions. In the end, we came up with a combo that is essentially a 308W pushed back .165 with the standard 308W shoulder angle and body taper. We did have the neck length shortened just a skosh, so the overall chamber length is 1.835. Dies are stupid-simple (good for people like me)...a Wilson standard 308W seater shortened .165 and modified to size the entire neck length and a Redding 308W Body Die shortened .165 and modified by JLC to use a neck bushing and decapping rod. This case holds 48.0 of water and works great with the faster lots of N135 and a 118 @ 2,980-ish. This chambering has brought home a lot of wood for quite a few people, including the 2003 I.B.S. Hunter National Championship. I used this case from 1999 to 2005. An unexpected benefit was that the 6.5X47 Lapua brass is perfect for this chamber...neck it up and blow the shoulder foward a bit and there you have it. Works with the same dies as before, too. Hard not to like this chamber for dozens of reasons.
Left- 30 WolfPup: This is our effort at a minimum capacity hunter case (45.0 or 45.5 depending on IBS or NBRSA rules). Rather that shoving the shoulders back as is commonly done, Stan and I decided to approach it from the other way and simply blow the shoulder foward on a 30BR until we reached legal case capacity. We had seen some things in our other work that had led us to believe that neck length was not only a non-issue..but that there may in fact be some benefits to a shorter neck length. It is 1.500 long and holds 45.7 of water...basically it's a 30BR Improved .240 longer. Best accuracy is with H4198 @ 3,140. Stan and I have both used this case for the last two seasons in our HBR rigs and have been very pleased with the results. Stan actually uses this chambering in his VfS rig also and this last season won the 100 yd. portion of the I.B.S. Wi. State Championship...no small feat given the caliber (pun intended) of shooters present at that event. In both IBS and NBRSA Hunter competiton, this case has performed well with zero case issues over the last two seasons other than the normal case maintainence we usually do.
Sorry for the rambling response, but for a new person interested in Hunter Benchrest competition the myriad of cases and designations can be mind boggling to sort through. I would sure recommend a persons initial effort be with a known good combination and a 'less is more' approach. There are other great combos available...the short 30-284 that T.K. Nollan drove to a recent NBRSA Hunter Nationals win is another great case that exploits the short/fat concept to it's fullest.
In the end, it's the guy that hittin' the flags and managing his time well that ends up winning..no matter what kind of trick, double throwdown case somebody may be using. But that's part of the fun and frustration of Hunter Benchrest competition, though.
Best of luck with your project and good (make that great) shootin'.
[/IMG]
Ben, there are dozens of ways to approach a good case for a Hunter Benchrest rig. Lots of stuff works, from the 30-30 based Aardvarks all the way up to the full length 308's. The importance of reamer/chamber/die/brass fit is critical to a good working rig, regardless of what case you ultimately decide to use...at least in my opinion. But I'm just one guy and there may be others that use a different approach.
Here's three different cases that Stan and I have worked with in our search for the 'ultimate' HBR case. That is..if such a creature exists.
Left- 30 BeWare:This is a full length 6.5X284 Lapua necked to .30. Randy Robinett and I were doing parallel development work with HBR cases that would push the 118-125's to significantly higher muzzle velocities that what is commonly used. Randy's rig was a full length 300WSM @ 3,600-3,700 and my BeWare was 3,400-3,500 with 54.0-55.0 of Re15. In a 10 lb. Hunter rig, it was...errrr...interesting to shoot all day.
Randy did an 'end run' and used a muzzle brake on his 300 Whizzum HBR rig..brakes being legal at that time. Middle- 30 WareWolf: This is a 'ham and egg' HBR case that does it all and does it right. The Kiff reamer was spec'd after a good bit of looking at available dies and dimensions. In the end, we came up with a combo that is essentially a 308W pushed back .165 with the standard 308W shoulder angle and body taper. We did have the neck length shortened just a skosh, so the overall chamber length is 1.835. Dies are stupid-simple (good for people like me
)...a Wilson standard 308W seater shortened .165 and modified to size the entire neck length and a Redding 308W Body Die shortened .165 and modified by JLC to use a neck bushing and decapping rod. This case holds 48.0 of water and works great with the faster lots of N135 and a 118 @ 2,980-ish. This chambering has brought home a lot of wood for quite a few people, including the 2003 I.B.S. Hunter National Championship. I used this case from 1999 to 2005. An unexpected benefit was that the 6.5X47 Lapua brass is perfect for this chamber...neck it up and blow the shoulder foward a bit and there you have it. Works with the same dies as before, too. Hard not to like this chamber for dozens of reasons. Left- 30 WolfPup: This is our effort at a minimum capacity hunter case (45.0 or 45.5 depending on IBS or NBRSA rules). Rather that shoving the shoulders back as is commonly done, Stan and I decided to approach it from the other way and simply blow the shoulder foward on a 30BR until we reached legal case capacity. We had seen some things in our other work that had led us to believe that neck length was not only a non-issue..but that there may in fact be some benefits to a shorter neck length. It is 1.500 long and holds 45.7 of water...basically it's a 30BR Improved .240 longer. Best accuracy is with H4198 @ 3,140. Stan and I have both used this case for the last two seasons in our HBR rigs and have been very pleased with the results. Stan actually uses this chambering in his VfS rig also and this last season won the 100 yd. portion of the I.B.S. Wi. State Championship...no small feat given the caliber (pun intended
) of shooters present at that event. In both IBS and NBRSA Hunter competiton, this case has performed well with zero case issues over the last two seasons other than the normal case maintainence we usually do. Sorry for the rambling response, but for a new person interested in Hunter Benchrest competition the myriad of cases and designations can be mind boggling to sort through. I would sure recommend a persons initial effort be with a known good combination and a 'less is more' approach. There are other great combos available...the short 30-284 that T.K. Nollan drove to a recent NBRSA Hunter Nationals win is another great case that exploits the short/fat concept to it's fullest.
In the end, it's the guy that hittin' the flags and managing his time well that ends up winning..no matter what kind of trick, double throwdown case somebody may be using. But that's part of the fun and frustration of Hunter Benchrest competition, though.
Best of luck with your project and good (make that great) shootin'.
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Yeah. It is called a 30x44. I have one, it shoots fine, and is a pain to make cases for. If you feel like you have to do penance for all your sins, go ahead & do this, or shorten a .308.
If, on the other hand, you feel pretty good about your soul & just want to shoot, the .30 made on the 6.5x47 case seems like a good idea.
Bite the bullet (so to speak) & get a new reamer that is up to benchrest standards -- at least a little neck turn, & .003 over virgin brass at the web & shoulder. Then have a sizing die made to match. If you want to trust you luck, go the other way -- have the chambering reamer made to match an existing off-the-shelf die. Most reamer makers can do that, too.
If, on the other hand, you feel pretty good about your soul & just want to shoot, the .30 made on the 6.5x47 case seems like a good idea.
Bite the bullet (so to speak) & get a new reamer that is up to benchrest standards -- at least a little neck turn, & .003 over virgin brass at the web & shoulder. Then have a sizing die made to match. If you want to trust you luck, go the other way -- have the chambering reamer made to match an existing off-the-shelf die. Most reamer makers can do that, too.
Ben, this has been done for quite a long time to make up various 30X44's and 30X47's. I'll include a pic of a 30X47 case made on the 300 Savage. It's 1.850 long with the shoulder pushed back far enough to get a .350 long neck with the 300 Savages standard 30 degree shoulder angle.
Ben, the thing that's critical to keep in mind is that there's no such thing as a 'standard' 30X44 or a 'standard' 30X47. The '44' and '47' figure only refers to the overall length of the case, much like a 308W is, in fact, a '51' mm case...as in '7.62X51'.
And depending on neck length, you can have 30X44's that have the same case capacity as certain variations of the 30X47's. An example of this would be our 30 WolfPup: going strictly by case length, it's a 30X38. But capacity-wise, it holds as much as many 30X44's...and some 30X47's.
And not all 30X44's will make the minimum case capacity either..depends on the parent brass, case taper, neck length, etc. I'm going to post a link that Ray 'Cheechako' posted on another site that shows some of the different variations of Hunter cases. Scoll down until you come to 'Score Shooting Cartridges-HBR'.http://www.6mmbr.com/compcartridges.html
One thing to keep in mind: I see you're from Maine: if you're not going to be competing in NBRSA Hunter competition, the IBS also has the Varmint Hunter class..which is identical to IBS Hunter class with the exception that is has no minimum case capacity requirements. In other words, if you're not going to be traveling West for NBRSA tournaments, build yourself a 30BR for the IBS Varmint Hunter class, enjoy the same challenges of Six Power Benchrest as your IBS/NBRSA Hunter bretheren....without any of the case hassles we're talking about.
You send your reamer to Dave Kiff and have it reworked to 30BR 'Robinett' specs with your choice of freebore, order off the shelf dies, expand/turn the necks of Lapua's excellent 6BR cases...and go shooting.If it seems to you that the case capacity rules for Hunter competition make it difficult for a new person to get into this class...you are correct. It's one thing that both sanctioning bodies should take a hard look at changing. Eliminating the case capacity rule would encourage new shooters to give Hunter Class a try without the difficulty of going through all the case forming/ die making/reamer specing/ hoping to #ell that it all works out approach.
Just my view from the 'cheap seats'.
Hope this has helped more than confused 'ya. -AlBen, this has been done for quite a long time to make up various 30X44's and 30X47's. I'll include a pic of a 30X47 case made on the 300 Savage. It's 1.850 long with the shoulder pushed back far enough to get a .350 long neck with the 300 Savages standard 30 degree shoulder angle.
[/IMG]
Ben, the thing that's critical to keep in mind is that there's no such thing as a 'standard' 30X44 or a 'standard' 30X47. The '44' and '47' figure only refers to the overall length of the case, much like a 308W is, in fact, a '51' mm case...as in '7.62X51'.
And depending on neck length, you can have 30X44's that have the same case capacity as certain variations of the 30X47's. An example of this would be our 30 WolfPup: going strictly by case length, it's a 30X38. But capacity-wise, it holds as much as many 30X44's...and some 30X47's.
http://www.6mmbr.com/compcartridges.html
One thing to keep in mind: I see you're from Maine: if you're not going to be competing in NBRSA Hunter competition, the IBS also has the Varmint Hunter class..which is identical to IBS Hunter class with the exception that is has no minimum case capacity requirements. In other words, if you're not going to be traveling West for NBRSA tournaments, build yourself a 30BR for the IBS Varmint Hunter class, enjoy the same challenges of Six Power Benchrest as your IBS/NBRSA Hunter bretheren....without any of the case hassles we're talking about.
If it seems to you that the case capacity rules for Hunter competition make it difficult for a new person to get into this class...you are correct. It's one thing that both sanctioning bodies should take a hard look at changing. Eliminating the case capacity rule would encourage new shooters to give Hunter Class a try without the difficulty of going through all the case forming/ die making/reamer specing/ hoping to #ell that it all works out approach.
Just my view from the 'cheap seats'.
Thanks again al, I did see the varmint huinter class rules, and thought about going that way. And your assumption is correct, I like the limitations of the Hunter class.
I've been shooting all my life, but when I started speaking with and meeting competetive shooters, someone told me that benchrest is the only sport where someone will help you try to compete against them. they'll loan you a rifle to shoot in a match their in! And tell you how to win. It's a good attitude, for the betterment of the sport. Competition drives perfection. And teaching a subject is the best way to master it.
And that seems to be the case, it would be easy for you guys to ignore my posts and let me go chamber up a 308, throated and twisted for 168 grain bullets, and I would be stuck with it.
So, I'd be a fool not to listen. It seems that there is a consensus around "biting the bullet" and getting a reamer for 30x47 Lapua, throated for the 1" bullets and a 17 twist barrel. I have to go over my notes, feel free to correct me.
I can have a die made with the reamer, or a reamer made for the die?
Anyway, I can read back through the posts and figure it out. (maybe)
Ben
Ben, if you're willing to have the reamer reworked, I'd sure advise sending it to Dave Kiff at PTG and having him redo it to work with the 6.5X47 Lapua brass. Expanded to .30, the 6.5x47 Lapua case ends up about 1.810 long. With 118-125's based on the 1.00" long jackets, the resulting case volume lands you squarely in the middle of a lot of powders that work really well....N133, N135, Benchmark, etc. Chamber neck diameters from .332-.335 work well for this setup.
Al,
I need to get my barrel ordered, so what twist should I use for this setup?
My scope weighs 15 oz.
My stock weights 26 oz.
My 700 short action weighs ?? (maybe you guys know, the old barrel is still on it)
My max weight for my barrel?
Al,
I need to get my barrel ordered, so what twist should I use for this setup?
My scope weighs 15 oz.
My stock weights 26 oz.
My 700 short action weighs ?? (maybe you guys know, the old barrel is still on it)
My max weight for my barrel?
R. G. Robinett
New member
Lots of good info here!
Pete, I have yet to get my grubby paws on a 30T/C, but essentially, it's another 30x47/48/ 30 IMHSA type case - it looks like the capacity will be in the 48 Gr. of H2O area. I read some "data" in one of the mainstream rags - performance was about what we'd expect from a 30x47 HBR. Nothing really new - but, it could prove useful - especially with the readily available dies. . . and presumably, brass. Another EASY option which we always overlook - the EXCELLET, but PLAIN JANE .300 Savage!
If I didn't already own a few reamers, I'd opt for a [so called] 30x47 reamer, based upon the "new" Lapua 6.5x47 brass (really just a readily available variation of the 25+ year old 30x47HBR, which in turn, was just a .300 Sav. with the shoulder set back to create a .350" long neck) or, a plane .300 Savage, featuring a .332" neck didmeter, and "throated" to work with the 1.00" or < long bullets: either are good options. READ the dimensions posted by Charles E. - you'll avoid a LOT of grief. RG
Pete, I have yet to get my grubby paws on a 30T/C, but essentially, it's another 30x47/48/ 30 IMHSA type case - it looks like the capacity will be in the 48 Gr. of H2O area. I read some "data" in one of the mainstream rags - performance was about what we'd expect from a 30x47 HBR. Nothing really new - but, it could prove useful - especially with the readily available dies. . . and presumably, brass. Another EASY option which we always overlook - the EXCELLET, but PLAIN JANE .300 Savage!
If I didn't already own a few reamers, I'd opt for a [so called] 30x47 reamer, based upon the "new" Lapua 6.5x47 brass (really just a readily available variation of the 25+ year old 30x47HBR, which in turn, was just a .300 Sav. with the shoulder set back to create a .350" long neck) or, a plane .300 Savage, featuring a .332" neck didmeter, and "throated" to work with the 1.00" or < long bullets: either are good options. READ the dimensions posted by Charles E. - you'll avoid a LOT of grief.
RGREAD the dimensions posted by Charles E. - you'll avoid a LOT of grief.
Ben, this is some of the best advice you'll ever get. There is nothing more frustrating than 'rassling your rig all over the bench trying to get the bolt open on a mild load...just because the resize die dimensions aren't right. A properly done sizing die is as simple as having Dave Kiff make up a resizing reamer .003 under your chamber reamer and a Newlon blank.
I'll slander one of my favorite lines from Lonesome Dove: "There's no crime in slappin' a surly bartender."
"There's no crime in gettin' aggresive with your sizing die."
-Al
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OK, I called Bruno's and got a 17 twist 30 cal hunter profile Krieger barrel (#7).
The rest of the story.... I also got a Mcmillan Hunter class stock semi inletted.
B
bushpilotmexico
Guest
Pete, I have yet to get my grubby paws on a 30T/C, but essentially, it's another 30x47/48/ 30 IMHSA type case - it looks like the capacity will be in the 48 Gr. of H2O area. I read some "data" in one of the mainstream rags - performance was about what we'd expect from a 30x47 HBR. Nothing really new - but, it could prove useful - especially with the readily available dies. . . and presumably, brass. Another EASY option which we always overlook - the EXCELLET, but PLAIN JANE .300 Savage!
If I didn't already own a few reamers, I'd opt for a [so called] 30x47 reamer, based upon the "new" Lapua 6.5x47 brass (really just a readily available variation of the 25+ year old 30x47HBR, which in turn, was just a .300 Sav. with the shoulder set back to create a .350" long neck) or, a plane .300 Savage, featuring a .332" neck didmeter, and "throated" to work with the 1.00" or < long bullets: either are good options. READ the dimensions posted by Charles E. - you'll avoid a LOT of grief.
I've read thru all the threads and am still a little confused.....I just bought a 30-47 and will have delivery in 2 to 3 weeks. The deal included 100 brass made from .300 Savage cases. The seller said that the gunsmith formed the brass for him.
Naturally I would like to have some more brass available. Let's assume I buy .300 Savage brass and I need to set the shoulder back. What would I use for a body resizing die?
The rifle included Wilson dies, originally 30.30, that the gunsmith opened with the 30-47 chambering reamer. The Wilson die only neck sizes.
What exactly is the difference, dimension wise, between the 6.5x47 and the 30-47 other than the neck diameter? Can I just buy 6.5x47 Lapua brass, expand the neck, load a bullet or will it not chamber in my 30-47?
I apologize if my questions seem a little stupid but I'm a newbie to this 30-47 calibre. I also have a 6 PPC and a 6 BR that I shoot regularly. I formed the 6 PPC from Lapua .220 Russian after I expanded the neck to 6 mm, loaded a bullet and fire formed the case.
I'd appreciate any help or advice, thank you muchly.
I'm certainly no expert here, but. i think you are talking about two different wildcats. Yours is a 30x47 Savage and the other is 30x47 Lapua, which would have different case geometry, just the same brass length.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Ben
B
bushpilotmexico
Guest
This is where it gets confusing for me.....if you look at a schematic of a 6.5x47 Lapua case and compare the measurements to a .300 Savage except for the shoulder and obviously neck diameter they are basically the same. As suggested the shoulder just has to be pushed back.
I'm wondering if a 6.5x47 Lapua body sizing die was modified to accept the neck on the .300 Savage if that die could be used to form the 30-47 case?
From reading the threads on this posting it seems like if you have a 30-47 and want to use the 6.5x47 brass you have to have the rifle rechambered by having Dave Kiff modify your 30-47 reamer?
I'll be talking today with Mr. Charles Henry, who is the gunsmith in Georgia who built the rifle, and created the 30-47 brass using the .300 Savage cartridge.
It's easy fire forming brass from .220 Russian for my PPC because you are moving everything forward but I've never had to move a shoulder back if you know what I mean.....seems like a die would have to be used?
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I wil give it a shot - -
It is easy to push the necks back 300 Savage cases if one has a shortened up threaded die or a threaded bump die. The 30-47 made from 300 Savage cases uses the whole case with the shoulder pushed back .150.
There are two sort of popular shoulder angles. 30* and 40*. One of the biggest problems in finding a full length sizing die is with a 40* shoulder if one does not have the reamer to make the die. I am surprised that there hasn't been more in the way of standardizing these cases over time but there hasn't. Therefore, no commercial maker makes dies, that I am aware of. A lot of people have their reamers ground to fit the Lapua brass. They use to use 308 Lapua brass before the new 6.5x 47 became available. The 6.5X47 is .001 bigger in the butt than the 308 Lapua. Ameican made cases are smaller than the Lapua 308 brass. Rem's measure .463 at the butt and the Win. measures .466 at the butt. The Lapua 308 measures .468
I believe that if one uses the 300 Savage brass they can simply cut a 300 Savage die off at the bottom the amount necessary to push the shoulder back and if the reamer made the chamber that size, one can use the die to resize. the 300 savage has a 30* shoulder I believe.
You truly will need full length resizing die. You maight ask the person you bought the rifle from for a number of things: 1. If he has a full lenght sizing die for that rifle chamber. 2. If he can give you a copy of the reamer brint. 3, If shortening a 300 Savage die will size the cases properly ( Perhaps he will shorten a die for you).
I know Wilson hand dies are very popular but I got away from using them a few years ago. I do all my loading in a turret press with threaded dies. The dies do all the work. If the dies are straight and true, your finished ammo will be. I have the hand dies for every chambering I have but I do not use them very often. I load at home, during the week so that I have time at the range to relax and socialize.While I think there may be a small issue with tune by doing that, I don't think it has bitten me all that often. Here in Maine, we don't get the huge swings in temp and humidity that other parts of the country do. When I go out of State I just hope for stable ambient conditions. I am hoping tuners will aleviate some of this situation.
It is possible to get custom full length dies made but they are expensive and in one case, use proprietory components that are more expensive. Dies are an issue with some chamberings. I have one of the 40* 30-47's that I don't have a full length die for. I am in a quandry about the situation. I may just get the rifle re-chambered to the dies I do have. I wouldn't get another barrel chambered in the 47 length.
Quite often one will get a Bump die with a rifle which is made using the finish reamer and cut off a few thou. These dies don't do much for Full length sizing.
So, I hope this helps a bit. Pete
It is easy to push the necks back 300 Savage cases if one has a shortened up threaded die or a threaded bump die. The 30-47 made from 300 Savage cases uses the whole case with the shoulder pushed back .150.
There are two sort of popular shoulder angles. 30* and 40*. One of the biggest problems in finding a full length sizing die is with a 40* shoulder if one does not have the reamer to make the die. I am surprised that there hasn't been more in the way of standardizing these cases over time but there hasn't. Therefore, no commercial maker makes dies, that I am aware of. A lot of people have their reamers ground to fit the Lapua brass. They use to use 308 Lapua brass before the new 6.5x 47 became available. The 6.5X47 is .001 bigger in the butt than the 308 Lapua. Ameican made cases are smaller than the Lapua 308 brass. Rem's measure .463 at the butt and the Win. measures .466 at the butt. The Lapua 308 measures .468
I believe that if one uses the 300 Savage brass they can simply cut a 300 Savage die off at the bottom the amount necessary to push the shoulder back and if the reamer made the chamber that size, one can use the die to resize. the 300 savage has a 30* shoulder I believe.
You truly will need full length resizing die. You maight ask the person you bought the rifle from for a number of things: 1. If he has a full lenght sizing die for that rifle chamber. 2. If he can give you a copy of the reamer brint. 3, If shortening a 300 Savage die will size the cases properly ( Perhaps he will shorten a die for you).
I know Wilson hand dies are very popular but I got away from using them a few years ago. I do all my loading in a turret press with threaded dies. The dies do all the work. If the dies are straight and true, your finished ammo will be. I have the hand dies for every chambering I have but I do not use them very often. I load at home, during the week so that I have time at the range to relax and socialize.While I think there may be a small issue with tune by doing that, I don't think it has bitten me all that often. Here in Maine, we don't get the huge swings in temp and humidity that other parts of the country do. When I go out of State I just hope for stable ambient conditions. I am hoping tuners will aleviate some of this situation.
It is possible to get custom full length dies made but they are expensive and in one case, use proprietory components that are more expensive. Dies are an issue with some chamberings. I have one of the 40* 30-47's that I don't have a full length die for. I am in a quandry about the situation. I may just get the rifle re-chambered to the dies I do have. I wouldn't get another barrel chambered in the 47 length.
Quite often one will get a Bump die with a rifle which is made using the finish reamer and cut off a few thou. These dies don't do much for Full length sizing.
So, I hope this helps a bit. Pete
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B
bushpilotmexico
Guest
Hi Pete,
Thank you the very useful info....Mr. Henry (gunsmith) must be away for a few days as I just tried, unsuccessfully, to reach him again. I know that he formed the original 100 cases that came with my purchase. I'm thinking that his reamer probably mimics the dimensions of the .300 Savage case but the chamber is fore shortened.
If that's the case then your suggestion to shorten a .300 Savage resizing die seems like a reasonable solution. I will know more when I actually talk with Mr. Henry and will post any info he gives me.
I apprecate your input,
Cliff
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Question Al -
Does a die made using a smaller reamer need to be heat treated or can it be used as is?
Thanks, Pete
Ben, this is some of the best advice you'll ever get. There is nothing more frustrating than 'rassling your rig all over the bench trying to get the bolt open on a mild load...just because the resize die dimensions aren't right. A properly done sizing die is as simple as having Dave Kiff make up a resizing reamer .003 under your chamber reamer and a Newlon blank.
I'll slander one of my favorite lines from Lonesome Dove: "There's no crime in slappin' a surly bartender."
"There's no crime in gettin' aggresive with your sizing die."
Does a die made using a smaller reamer need to be heat treated or can it be used as is?
Thanks, Pete
R. G. Robinett
New member
The only significant difference between the new Lapua offering and an original 30x47HBR chambering (one intended for the .300 Sav. brass - virgin brass is usually .464" @ web) will be the web diameter(s) and OAL of the cases: trimming will quickly reslove the latter. Just above the extractor groove, the virgin Lapua brass will will probably measure 0.469" (+/- 0.0005"), thus will NOT fit into a 30x34 HBR chamber, which will measure 0.466-.467" in diameter. - unless it (your 30x47) was chambered using a reamer specifically ground for the LAPUA web diameter. If you have a FL die, compatible with the .467< chamber, you could size the Lapua brass down . . . but you'd probably not be happy with the results: this is a recipe for "tight" cases.
Assuming that the neck port is large enough, you could set the shoulder of the .300 Sav. case back using a Redding (or other) 6.5x47 Lapua FL/NK bushing die: the head space difference between my original 30x47 HBR and my new 30x47 Lapua (both have 30 Deg. shoulders) is only 0.001". This was determined using the respective "GO" gauges, interchangably between the two H.S. gauges (barrel stubs, which have the reamer run in to shoulder depth, then faced on both ends).
THE question: which 30x47 do you have - an original 30x47 HBR (.466 -.467 web/30Deg shoulder), a "new" 30x47HBR (.471"+ web / 30 Deg. shoulder), or, something else??
On a WILDCAT, the HS is not that big an issue -the FL die can be adjusted to minimly bump the shoulder, thus accommodating easy chambering - THE deal wrecker is the relative web diameters and these diameters relative to the HS dimension: virgin brass, chamber; FL die web diameter - if these are not compatible, frustration could result. The diameteres must be resized while only bumping the shoulder - 0.001 -0.0015" - many FL dies will set the shoulder back enough to cause excessive HS and still not adequately resize the web diameter! A FL die intended for the new Lapua brass, will not size the web of brass fired in an origingal - .466 - .467" diameter - HBR chamber.But there IS good news:shoulder angles other than 30 Deg. are less common and the new Lpaua offering is extremely close to a 30x47 HBR which has been chambered using a [modified] reamer - one which was ground to match Lapua .308 Win. brass - such a reamer will feature a web diameter of .471" or >. Especially in the last ten years, most 30x47 HBR reamers have been ground with the larger (Lapua) web dimension - which could work in your favor! RG
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